isa
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Post by isa on Aug 16, 2022 13:38:09 GMT
isa That would be Andy Verify the new BBC correspondent in the Falklands islands. Can't have reality rearing its head again. Funnily enough, steve, I was wondering whether they'll show the clip again on the 6 o'clock news, or a new live interview with Andy where he might be a little less frank, having been given the opportunity to 'reconsider' his choice of words. It will make for interesting viewing.
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c-a-r-f-r-e-w
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Post by c-a-r-f-r-e-w on Aug 16, 2022 13:57:52 GMT
Seems Labour's energy price cap is very popular, even among tory voters And Brown’s plan, of at least temporary nationalisation, seems quite popular, even among Tories.
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Post by crossbat11 on Aug 16, 2022 14:08:34 GMT
This seems more like it from Labour. Rather than a low key policy announcement that then quickly withers on the vine, they appear to have learned lessons and are going all out to fill the convenient political vacuum gifted to them by the Tories. Using their newly announced energy price cap freeze policy as the vanguard, seemingly very popular with the public, they are going to get into full campaign mode. War footing even. Sensibly, it won't just be Starmer, but involving too big hitters like Reeves and Miliband touring marginal constituencies and local media studios. National coverage will likely ensue. Social media and conventional mailshots to be heavily used too for message reinforcement. I think it's a truism of politics that elections are often decided way ahead of the actual campaign and if an opposition starts behaving like a government in waiting then voters take notice, especially if that magic electoral elixir, "Potion Time for a Change" begins to appear in the shops. Shelves empty fast. Matthew Doyle, the former Blairite aide, now Director of Communications for Labour, may be thinking it feels like old times! www.theguardian.com/politics/2022/aug/16/labour-to-push-energy-price-cap-policy-in-campaign-blitz
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neilj
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Post by neilj on Aug 16, 2022 14:21:51 GMT
Sunak not pulling his punches
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Post by Deleted on Aug 16, 2022 15:03:08 GMT
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pjw1961
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Post by pjw1961 on Aug 16, 2022 15:32:45 GMT
Truss rejects Labour's plan - which, rightly or wrongly, is wildly popular - and insists on tax cuts instead which no one thinks will help the poorest. It is as if Labour have set a very obvious trap and she's charged straight into it. Zero political antennae. I think if I was a Tory MP I would be in a state of panic about her becoming PM.
"She said: We’re still in the leadership contest at the moment. Now, my priority is reducing taxes so people can keep more of their own money at the same time as making sure we boost energy supply. It is wrong to just keep sticking plasters on this problem. What we actually need to do is make sure we are unleashing more energy, for example, from the North Sea. We’re investing in technologies like nuclear, and we’re finding more renewable energy as well."
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Post by Deleted on Aug 16, 2022 15:32:54 GMT
It’s definitely not right for people to take the piss out of Man Utd just for being rubbish at football. Disgraceful behaviour.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 16, 2022 15:34:22 GMT
Truss rejects Labour's plan - which, rightly or wrongly, is wildly popular - and insists on tax cuts instead which no one thinks will help the poorest. It is as if Labour have set a very obvious trap and she's charged straight into it. Zero political antennae. I think if I was a Tory MP I would be in a state of panic about her becoming PM. "She said: We’re still in the leadership contest at the moment. Now, my priority is reducing taxes so people can keep more of their own money at the same time as making sure we boost energy supply. It is wrong to just keep sticking plasters on this problem. What we actually need to do is make sure we are unleashing more energy, for example, from the North Sea. We’re investing in technologies like nuclear, and we’re finding more renewable energy as well." I do hope that, in reality, the contest is already over. It’s going to be “interesting” to put it mildly.
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pjw1961
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Post by pjw1961 on Aug 16, 2022 15:42:09 GMT
Truss rejects Labour's plan - which, rightly or wrongly, is wildly popular - and insists on tax cuts instead which no one thinks will help the poorest. It is as if Labour have set a very obvious trap and she's charged straight into it. Zero political antennae. I think if I was a Tory MP I would be in a state of panic about her becoming PM. I do hope that, in reality, the contest is already over. It’s going to be “interesting” to put it mildly. There is no doubt Labour have stitched the Tories up like a kipper on this one and, as someone who has been critical of Starmer's passivity, I can only say well done to him and his team. It doesn't matter whether the Labour plan makes sense or not the thing is it sounds right and is in tune with the public mood. Truss comes over as ideological and tin-eared. Johnson would have u-turned by now.
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Post by ladyvalerie on Aug 16, 2022 16:06:47 GMT
COLIN
Someone landing from Mars and reading your critique of Starmer and Reeves’ proposal to tackle the soaring cost of people’s energy bills, would imagine that they are Prime Minister and CofE. They would conclude that Truss and Sunak were vying for the leadership of a weird sect who were limbering up for a war on Woke. In preparation for this battle, the two of them play violins while the UK is brought to its knees, beset by economic crises. Our visitor would see a lot of interest in pictures of a scruffy “fat ponce” wandering round a Greek supermarket.
Where our government should be working tirelessly to sort things out, there is a vacuum.
I think Conservative MPs, members and supporters owe the rest of us an apology for subjecting us to this interminable leadership election in which we do not have a choice. Why on earth after whittling the contenders down to 2, did the 1922 committee not give the membership less time, say two or three weeks, to cast their votes? Candidates could have held a couple of hustings and that would have been it.
I hope that Truss, the half-baked, self-appointed Thatcher II wins and, at the next election, the Tory party gets the results it deserves for causing so much damage in order to pursue their own narrow interests.
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neilj
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Post by neilj on Aug 16, 2022 16:07:34 GMT
Not a good look, made worse by trying to cover it up www.google.com/amp/s/www.bbc.com/news/uk-62566194.amp'UK ministers who backed sending asylum seekers to Rwanda were warned by their own adviser that its government tortures and kills political opponents... High Court judge Lord Justice Lewis was told the official had written in a covering email: "There are state control, security, surveillance structures from the national level down... political opposition is not tolerated and arbitrary detention, torture and even killings are accepted methods of enforcing control too"
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Post by crossbat11 on Aug 16, 2022 16:21:09 GMT
It’s definitely not right for people to take the piss out of Man Utd just for being rubbish at football. Disgraceful behaviour. Chris Aberavon will appreciate your concern.
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c-a-r-f-r-e-w
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Post by c-a-r-f-r-e-w on Aug 16, 2022 16:33:16 GMT
@ carfrew Yesterday you were approving the satellite launcher being developed in Cornwall and the links that go to the facility were making claims on its uniqueness and being Britain`s first. I just wonder if they are forgetting the Scottish launchers being developed in Moray and Sutherland: www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-highlands-islands-61379577Or is there a race going on? As leftieliberal has already pointed out, the key point is that the Cornwall facility provides for horizontal launches, using jumbo jets taking off from a runway as a first stage, carrying the second stage under a wing, whereas the Sutherland and Shetland launch sites offer more conventional vertical launch facilities, where the first and second stage launch straight up from a launchpad. As Leftie pointed out, “ There are some advantages to launching from an aircraft, mainly that aircraft can take off in conditions that would prohibit ground-level launches and starting from an altitude of 10 km plus means that you need to use less fuel to overcome air resistance.” …but I thought I might elaborate a little. There are some other pros-and-cons when comparing horizontal-versus-vertical launches. For example, a rocket normally has to carry a supply of oxygen in some form with which to burn the fuel, but an airplane used for horizontal launches would typically get the oxygen from the atmosphere instead of carrying it onboard, saving weight. On the down side, the airplane needs wings costing weight, whereas a first stage rocket typically doesn’t. Another downside is that the second stage is launched horizontally from under the wing, before being diverted upwards, also potentially costing more fuel and reducing payload. But the key point in this instance, is the time it takes to launch. To prepare a typical rocket for launch you have to ferry it to the launchpad (slowly since it’s vertical and prone to tipping), then fuel it at the launch pad (in case it tips over on the way there and explodes), then run tests to make sure engines are working etc., which all takes time. Whereas a jumbo jet can be ready much more quickly. This is important in the context of the article, where there is an urgent need to replace a crucial satellite quickly if knocked out in wartime. Being able to fly around bad weather also means launches wouldn’t need to be delayed due to bad weather the way they might be for ordinary rockets. There is also a cost issue, since jumbo jets are designed to be very reusable. So you can use the same jet for multiple launches. SpaceX have made their vertical first stages reusable, but they may still need rather more time for checking over before reuse than a jumbo, and a jumbo might last for a lot more uses before being retired. I think Musk is trying to shorten the turnaround time and increase the longevity of his vertical first stages.* Interestingly though, one of the rockets you mentioned is actually being developed for partial reusability - the rocket motors are supposed to be reusable and they might extend the amount of reusability over time. (They are also using 3D printing to make the engines which also has some advantages, e.g. saving weight, since you can print larger, more complex pieces, that would normally be assembled from smaller pieces using bolts and welds etc.; might save time too since fewer pieces to assemble). * he is also trying to make the second stage reusable, the stage that goes to orbit, which is a much bigger ask, because on re-entry is slowing down from a much higher speed. It’s been done before of course, in the Space Shuttle, but it would typically take months to turn it around and prepare it for another launch and cost mucho dollars. Musk is trying to make his second stage be turned around in a day or two, and more cheaply. (Also, the Shuttle needed an atmosphere to brake, and lengthy runway to land on, whereas Musk’s second stage would be able to operate on the moon. The rocket engines also use methane and oxygen, which you can make on Mars from carbon dioxide and water using the Sabatier process, so you can refuel on Mars for the return journey from Mars to Earth).
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pjw1961
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Post by pjw1961 on Aug 16, 2022 16:42:25 GMT
I keep waiting for carfrew and steve to post next to each other so it looks like Clint and that kitten are having a shootout. Please make this happen.
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c-a-r-f-r-e-w
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Post by c-a-r-f-r-e-w on Aug 16, 2022 16:45:11 GMT
I keep waiting for carfrew and steve to post next to each other so it looks like Clint and that kitten are having a shootout. Please make this happen. Steve?
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steve
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Post by steve on Aug 16, 2022 17:10:29 GMT
Done
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steve
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Post by steve on Aug 16, 2022 17:11:54 GMT
Meanwhile I haven't actually red the crown advert but that colour is offensive enough on its own.
Who would inflict that on a baby?
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Post by Deleted on Aug 16, 2022 17:38:01 GMT
COLIN Someone landing from Mars and reading your critique of Starmer and Reeves’ proposal to tackle the soaring cost of people’s energy bills, would imagine that they are Prime Minister and CofE. They would conclude that Truss and Sunak were vying for the leadership of a weird sect who were limbering up for a war on Woke. In preparation for this battle, the two of them play violins while the UK is brought to its knees, beset by economic crises. Our visitor would see a lot of interest in pictures of a scruffy “fat ponce” wandering round a Greek supermarket. Where our government should be working tirelessly to sort things out, there is a vacuum. I think Conservative MPs, members and supporters owe the rest of us an apology for subjecting us to this interminable leadership election in which we do not have a choice. Why on earth after whittling the contenders down to 2, did the 1922 committee not give the membership less time, say two or three weeks, to cast their votes? Candidates could have held a couple of hustings and that would have been it. I hope that Truss, the half-baked, self-appointed Thatcher II wins and, at the next election, the Tory party gets the results it deserves for causing so much damage in order to pursue their own narrow interests. And a very good evening to you your Ladyship. I think a passing alien would indeed wonder where the UK Parliament is , during a recess. A sensible time to have this contest I suppose. But , as I may already have said , its too long . Why the 1922 Committee wanted it this way I have no idea. But then-I dont think their members should be choosing the PM. The MPs should.. If they had ,Sunak would have been PM weeks ago. I'm sorry that you feel that I take Starmer's proposal too seriously. But I'm a bit more interested, at present, in how all politicians think they can respond to the post Pandemic/Putin world ,than the jostling for power. I have looked at Starmer's proposal and numbers . I don't agree with the thing in principle-freezing energy prices -for rich and poor alike. And the numbers are suspect -but who listens to the IFS-or me !? At the party political level its certainly a pretty good trick to pull off. Telling people that they will be on a Fixed Tariff for six months at today's prices , without explaining that they then revert to Feb 2023 prices-not today's. And not explaining the massive cost of keeping them on today's rates , and whether he is proposing/can actually fund , such a policy. But then I don't think Starmer is alone in funking the honesty which voters are entitled to. Cornwall Insight say that energy prices will be "significantly above the five year pre-2021 historic average " until 2030. Not one politician that I know of has come anywhere near explaining what that implies for voters. Starmer's rabbit out of the hat is a con. trick . Truss is right-it is a "sticking plaster"-but she doesn't understand that this is what people need and will cling to till the bleeding stops. She has no idea how to stop that. Sunak , imo, is nearer the position I am looking for. -Acceptance of IMF's advice that Governments cannot shield voters from the CoL crisis in energy. Acceptance that the poorest and most vulnerable must be helped with targeted assistance. But even he hasn't come near to telling it how it is going to be. But he isn't going to be PM in September .So not long now before Starmer is ? Do you agree ? Then we will see how he copes with realities , rather than the fairyland of opposition promises which you identify .
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pjw1961
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Post by pjw1961 on Aug 16, 2022 17:39:56 GMT
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pjw1961
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Post by pjw1961 on Aug 16, 2022 17:47:13 GMT
To justify my previous comment about Truss' lack of knowledge of British productivity. "More or Less" (BBC R4) did a large piece on this and showed the largest single reason for the difference in apparent productivity between the UK and other countries is how we count the figures. Most countries count only working days, we include holidays. When you factor that it we climb above countries such as Japan and Italy which otherwise we rank below. Other factors are low level of capital investment and excessively long working hours. 'Lazy' workers has nothing to do with it. Here's the stats: www.ons.gov.uk/economy/economicoutputandproductivity/productivitymeasures/bulletins/internationalcomparisonsofproductivityfinalestimates/2020#:~:text=1.-,Main%20points,above%20the%20UK%20in%202019.
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Post by crossbat11 on Aug 16, 2022 17:49:15 GMT
Meanwhile I haven't actually red the crown advert but that colour is offensive enough on its own. Who would inflict that on a baby? Crown Paints worst offence was being Liverpool FC's shirt sponsor in the 1980s. This caused me to boycott their reasonably priced and not altogether unattractive range of paints. This boycott still pertains and I've been a Ronseal and Dulux man ever since Incidentally, I saw their controversial advert during a commercial break in The Hundred women's game of cricket this afternoon. Originals v Fire, whoever either of those teams may be. As for the advert, I thought it was harmless. If anything the joke was on the bloke. (I'm a poet yet obviously don't know it )
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Post by alec on Aug 16, 2022 18:00:29 GMT
pjw1961 - that leak: "In the recording she [Liz Truss] intimated that there seemed little desire to change the working culture so that the UK could become more prosperous." Where's Boris at the mo?
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Post by EmCat on Aug 16, 2022 18:00:41 GMT
Sunak not pulling his punches One of the kore interesting responses to that was "If only they understood they are fighting a LEADERSHIP campaign, not a General Election campaign!" That level of "Things would be this much worse with the other person" is normally aimed at those in a different political party, not both notionally on the same side.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 16, 2022 18:21:20 GMT
steve To be fair you are famous here for your own, rather aggressive “sense of humour” so assumed you could also take a joke. However, I have deleted the post so hope that is sufficient for you. (Might have been an idea to have mentioned your issue after the first occasion you complain about, as no offence was intended by me.) ps A pm would have been a good idea for example.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 16, 2022 18:28:50 GMT
“ But he isn't going to be PM in September .So not long now before Starmer is ? Do you agree ?”
Small matter of an almost certain two year wait, events and then more events - all as yet unknown - and then a general election for Labour to win from a very poor base to leave to one side, I definitely do.
Dunno about “her Ladyship”.
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steve
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Post by steve on Aug 16, 2022 18:42:25 GMT
@crofty I have mentioned it before, but it's not a major issue so isn't exactly something I mention on a routine basis, no problem if you hadn't noticed thanks for your response..
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Post by robbiealive on Aug 16, 2022 18:49:10 GMT
@ Lady Val, Colin, Crossbat & others. We seem to have covered all the angles on energy prices. One under-emphasised? element is that the 6-month fix is to get people through the winter. The reversion to higher prices comes at the onset of the period of lower consumption. Again: of course Labour are playing politics to a degree. That's what powerless oppositions do.
Sanctimonious calls that Sir Shining Starmer should single-handedly reform a political culture that we all agree has been corrupted in recent years are naive & partisan.As Charles, who re-ignited this debate, remarked: at least he is generating ideas. rather than prattling on about irrelevant tax cuts, Woke & EU laws. Lets recall that Tory candidates had to be dragged kicking & screaming to this debate which they chose to ignore. The dishonesty of people in government is a far greater crime than a bit of creative accounting from the opposition.
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Post by RAF on Aug 16, 2022 19:17:23 GMT
Sunak not pulling his punches One of the kore interesting responses to that was "If only they understood they are fighting a LEADERSHIP campaign, not a General Election campaign!" That level of "Things would be this much worse with the other person" is normally aimed at those in a different political party, not both notionally on the same side. Sunak playing the long game. Waiting for Truss's ill-fitting jigsaw to eventually fall apart so that he can be in pole position to pick up (and rearrange) the pieces.
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Post by graham on Aug 16, 2022 19:30:54 GMT
One of the kore interesting responses to that was "If only they understood they are fighting a LEADERSHIP campaign, not a General Election campaign!" That level of "Things would be this much worse with the other person" is normally aimed at those in a different political party, not both notionally on the same side. Sunak playing the long game. Waiting for Truss's ill-fitting jigsaw to eventually fall apart so that he can be in pole position to pick up (and rearrange) the pieces. I rather doubt it really. The nearer we get to an election the more obvious it is likely to become that voters are not in the mood for a further period of Thatcherite - Osborne/Howe style austerity.
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Post by crossbat11 on Aug 16, 2022 19:37:29 GMT
I would think the progress as measured in this graph would tick the first and most important box in Starmer's original "to do" list. I think it's well and truly game on now: -
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