Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Aug 7, 2022 8:46:26 GMT
That could be just about the longest hyperlink address ever posted. Apologies. Colin - isn't Richards really saying, in a roundabout way, that Starmer should be competing more with Truss in the bullshit stskes? Haven't we all had enough of that sort of politics over the last three years? Yes. I think he is wrong on this one.. But I do think Starmer has to be-as Richards suggests-more off the fence on the economy than his fence sitting on Strikes and (post) Brexit. People will be hurting badly. Sunak seems to understand that, but the Tory membership seem hell bent on Truss-who is going to give them a NIC reduction !!! This will be an open goal for Starmer. He needs to stick one in and tell people why they should vote for him to help them survive financially.
|
|
|
Post by chrisaberavon on Aug 7, 2022 8:53:40 GMT
COLIN. Thank you for that post from the Sunday T.
I remember you saying about the 2019 Landslide, on the day after the night before: 'What a night'
Not sure about the leadership of the Opposition at the moment. Driving home from the town centre this morning, listening to Radio 4, we had Michael Palin on a remarkable tweet of the day slot about the Ostrich and then into Boscombe, past the AFC Bournemouth (used to have Boscombe in the title and fans still shout 'Boscombe, back of the net' at corners) I heard Gordon Brown speaking with passion and morality.
It reminded me of the 1992-1993 season when Gordon was shadow chancellor, Tony was shadow Home, John Smith was an overcautious leader of the Opposition and United were beginning their first premiership campaign, with Norwich City and Aston Villa as the main contenders.
England seems beautiful this morning in this part of the world; the asian-heritage cricket league match was being played at King's Park as well. Just my view, but I think Truss will be a formidable campaigner against Labour. Tax, Defence, Foreign Policy and certain cultural issues will go badly for Labour, I think
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Aug 7, 2022 9:08:05 GMT
COLIN. Thank you for that post from the Sunday T. I remember you saying about the 2019 Landslide, on the day after the night before: 'What a night' Not sure about the leadership of the Opposition at the moment. Driving home from the town centre this morning, listening to Radio 4, we had Michael Palin on a remarkable tweet of the day slot about the Ostrich and then into Boscombe, past the AFC Bournemouth (used to have Boscombe in the title and fans still shout 'Boscombe, back of the net' at corners) I heard Gordon Brown speaking with passion and morality. It reminded me of the 1992-1993 season when Gordon was shadow chancellor, Tony was shadow Home, John Smith was an overcautious leader of the Opposition and United were beginning their first premiership campaign, with Norwich City and Aston Villa as the main contenders. England seems beautiful this morning in this part of the world; the asian-heritage cricket league match was being played at King's Park as well. Just my view, but I think Truss will be a formidable campaigner against Labour. Tax, Defence, Foreign Policy and certain cultural issues will go badly for Labour, I think I think the economic circumstances forecast by BoE last week will destroy her administration. If she appoint Kwarteng as CoE , I think that destruction will be quick. Starmer needs to say what he would do imo. If he does , and it sounds credible, I don't see how he can fail. I understand the pit falls for Labour you refer to. Their Foreign Policy & "Cultural issues" policies are always on my radar. But I cant escape the feeling that massive financial stress will be the over riding issue for families.
|
|
|
Post by alec on Aug 7, 2022 9:14:47 GMT
@colin - well you heard it here first! I've been talking about the Johnsonification of the Tory party as soon as the Truss bandwagon started to roll, but good that the ST has caught up. I think he is quite right in this analysis. Even as Brexit becomes less and less popular, and the impacts become more noticeable, Truss is banking on more of the same. The only caveat I would add is that this cohort of voters is highly susceptible to bullshit, and hard times aren't always easy for an opposition trying to talk sense and be credible. Overall though, I can see Truss losing many southern seats, to both Labour and Lib Dems, plus some of the leave areas, and while Labour might not have a stellar election night, I think the Tories will be worse.
|
|
|
Post by hireton on Aug 7, 2022 9:28:28 GMT
A report on Farage's address to CPAC in America which gives an indication of the direction which right wing British politics will go:
|
|
c-a-r-f-r-e-w
Member
A step on the way toward the demise of the liberal elite? Or just a blip…
Posts: 5,635
|
Post by c-a-r-f-r-e-w on Aug 7, 2022 9:29:35 GMT
View AttachmentAs energy bills are about to rise by 70% and cosplay Maggie is determined to cut taxes and services spare a thought for the forgotten 1% oh God, that made me laugh. I was holding it together till I read “text couscous”… 🤣🤣🤣
|
|
|
Post by jib on Aug 7, 2022 9:33:42 GMT
On the phoney war now taking place before things kick off in a year:
Keir Starmer is very much slow and steady, but the loony elements of the Labour party have been caged. I can't reiterate how important it was to sideline the likes of RLB, Tarry, Abbott etc. They couldn't run a Student Union at a small college never mind the Federal UK.
Truss will be an interesting one for Starmer to deal with, and I hope that the focus moves on to real policy issues and an agenda for growth in a low carbon world.
|
|
|
Post by crossbat11 on Aug 7, 2022 9:55:41 GMT
Our woefully unrepresentative electoral system, coming as it does with poor turnout and high voter non-registration, forces politicians to preoccupy themselves with the needs, wishes and prejudices of a minority of our citizens whose views are scandalously over-represented too in public discourse dictated by our politically and demographically skewed mainstream media.
Maybe the real political prize deserves to go to the party and politicians who can liberate us from our strait-jacketed thinking about how our society should work. Decline to stuff the usual mouths with gold, refuse to pander to the loud and siren voices off stage right and just take the game away from the people who always seem to write its rules.
That's real insurgency. Not tinkering with tax rates and blathering on about illusory brexit benefits. It isn't totally about economic issues either, although dealing with crippling social problems and gross inequality rely on economic measures to address them, but much more about recalibrating our politics, our constitutional settlement, our democracy. I think a new Social Contract, that binds governments to provide minimum standards of public service for all its citizens would be a good start. In return, we may all be required to vote, for example, and be obliged to be active citizens and not passive spectators.
Revitalise democracy and I think we may all be surprised what might ensue.
|
|
c-a-r-f-r-e-w
Member
A step on the way toward the demise of the liberal elite? Or just a blip…
Posts: 5,635
|
Post by c-a-r-f-r-e-w on Aug 7, 2022 10:09:08 GMT
We obviously have some Partridge afficianados on here, which is entirely as it should be. For Moby's benefit. Here's Partridge talking about the pedestrianisation of Norwich city centre in rather unusual circumstances. youtu.be/RUzZD9NA90IAbsolutely classic, though we never did get to hear what she thought about the pedestrianisation of Norwich City centre…
|
|
|
Post by crossbat11 on Aug 7, 2022 10:16:08 GMT
We obviously have some Partridge afficianados on here, which is entirely as it should be. For Moby's benefit. Here's Partridge talking about the pedestrianisation of Norwich city centre in rather unusual circumstances. youtu.be/RUzZD9NA90IAbsolutely classic, though we never did get to hear what she thought about the pedestrianisation of Norwich City centre… Indeed, we never did, but I suspect she was a little distracted. The earlier excursion to the Owl Sanctuary may have effected her a little. Alan playing some Bachman Turner Overdrive CDs in the car might have scrambled her mind too.
|
|
|
Post by robbiealive on Aug 7, 2022 10:45:23 GMT
Why is it always the anti-Labour voices, say Colin, or the pretend-Labour supporters, e.g. Chris Aberavon, right-wing Times & Sunday Telegraph columnists, & the I-am-so-disenchanted-with-Labour-I-can't-bring-myself-to-vote-for-them LOCs who are always demanding that Starmer/Labour finalises his/their agenda two years before a GE, while those who do intend voting Labour are more content with a long game?
Brown is calling for an emergency budget & a recall of Parliament with his customary & impressive moral fervour -- but it isn't going to happen. No-one is going to pay much attention to Starmer or Labour at the moment, though the Guardian seems determined to give the maximum publicity to Tarry. The game will resume when the PM emerges, has or does not have a honeymoon, when Parliament resumes 1st week of September. followed by the Party conferences, more strikes & the threat of strikes, & then the horror of the October energy price rises, the Autumn budget and a winter of crisis. I am prepared to wait and judge where we are in a few months.
|
|
|
Post by davwel on Aug 7, 2022 10:49:21 GMT
Our woefully unrepresentative electoral system, coming as it does with poor turnout and high voter non-registration, forces politicians to preoccupy themselves with the needs, wishes and prejudices of a minority of our citizens whose views are scandalously over-represented too in public discourse dictated by our politically and demographically skewed mainstream media. Maybe the real political prize deserves to go to the party and politicians who can liberate us from our strait-jacketed thinking about how our society should work. Decline to stuff the usual mouths with gold, refuse to pander to the loud and siren voices off stage right and just take the game away from the people who always seem to write its rules. That's real insurgency. Not tinkering with tax rates and blathering on about illusory brexit benefits. It isn't totally about economic issues either, although dealing with crippling social problems and gross inequality rely on economic measures to address them, but much more about recalibrating our politics, our constitutional settlement, our democracy. I think a new Social Contract, that binds governments to provide minimum standards of public service for all its citizens would be a good start. In return, we may all be required to vote, for example, and be obliged to be active citizens and not passive spectators. Revitalise democracy and I think we may all be surprised what might ensue. Yes, I agree very much on the problems and its causes, and also on having everyone voting. I am unsure on the practicality of the Social Contract, especially on persuading potential governing parties to set it up. Meanwhile, utter irresponsibility and greed go little checked. Sunak and Truss are plumbing new depths, and the media are mostly helping them along. Tax cuts are talked about rather than service cuts. Growth in the UK economy is seen as the answer. If that is produced by improved productivity, then fine. But where is the unused labour ready to work for new businesses and fill gaps in public services. Our papers in the NE have news about big hardships resulting from staff shortages. In Westhill one of the only two pharmacies has closed "temporalily" leaving the single one unable to cope - there have been long queues on the pavements outside, and some folk are reported to have queued for 2 hours to get much-needed prescriptions; security guards have been called in to keep order. And also worrying, the general hospital inn Elgin that serves Morayshire has had no consultant on night duty on 5 days last month, so nurses would have to cope with emergencies. The NHS is almost overwhelmed here, with operations cancelled and routine activity much delayed. But the D.Tel preaches that the only solution to the water crisis is more reservoirs and schemes to rob places with reasonable provision by piping to Southern England. Why ever can folk there stop watering lawns.
|
|
graham
Member
Posts: 3,558
Member is Online
|
Post by graham on Aug 7, 2022 11:02:41 GMT
I am afraid I cannot help there in that I was never directly employed by Radio Norfolk beyond being paid a fee for my election night commentaries.For quite a few years they used to send their Radio Car around to my home or workplace when they needed a quick commentary on events related to politics or economics. The ERM crisis in September 1992 sticks in my mind - though I was never paid for these incidental radio appearances! Did they ask you for your view on the pedestrianisation of Norwich city centre though? I mean don't traders need access to Dixon's? I was never asked for my views on policy issues and had to remain independent and impartial in all my psephological analysis and discussions related to economic policy matters.My role was strictly -non-party. I do recall covering the 1996 Local Election results - which were very bad for the Tories but not quite as abysmal as those of 1995. As individual ward results were declared I was able to say on quite a regular basis that the Tories had improved their position in many wards compared to a year earlier. In those days I was still a Labour activist. I was inforned a few days later by a Labour friend that a person who did not know me but had tuned in to Radio Norfolk's results programme had referred to myself as 'that Tory on the radio.' My friend then advised him that a few hours earlier I had been 'knocking up' for the party.! I was quite amused by that.
|
|
pjw1961
Member
Government, even in its best state, is but a necessary evil; in its worst state, an intolerable one.
Posts: 7,785
Member is Online
|
Post by pjw1961 on Aug 7, 2022 11:05:40 GMT
Our woefully unrepresentative electoral system, coming as it does with poor turnout and high voter non-registration, forces politicians to preoccupy themselves with the needs, wishes and prejudices of a minority of our citizens whose views are scandalously over-represented too in public discourse dictated by our politically and demographically skewed mainstream media. Maybe the real political prize deserves to go to the party and politicians who can liberate us from our strait-jacketed thinking about how our society should work. Decline to stuff the usual mouths with gold, refuse to pander to the loud and siren voices off stage right and just take the game away from the people who always seem to write its rules. That's real insurgency. Not tinkering with tax rates and blathering on about illusory brexit benefits. It isn't totally about economic issues either, although dealing with crippling social problems and gross inequality rely on economic measures to address them, but much more about recalibrating our politics, our constitutional settlement, our democracy. I think a new Social Contract, that binds governments to provide minimum standards of public service for all its citizens would be a good start. In return, we may all be required to vote, for example, and be obliged to be active citizens and not passive spectators. Revitalise democracy and I think we may all be surprised what might ensue. Since you are advocating activism, how do you think this should be done and who should do it? The Green Party, who might be interested in radical change, have never really got anywhere under FPTP and Corbyn led Labour's attempt to shift the Overton window ultimately failed (NB: it failed for several reasons, but I have no wish to start another round of the interminable and intensely boring UKPR pro/anti Corbyn debate). Starmer is being strictly 'safety-first'.
|
|
pjw1961
Member
Government, even in its best state, is but a necessary evil; in its worst state, an intolerable one.
Posts: 7,785
Member is Online
|
Post by pjw1961 on Aug 7, 2022 11:13:06 GMT
Our papers in the NE have news about big hardships resulting from staff shortages. In Westhill one of the only two pharmacies has closed "temporalily" leaving the single one unable to cope - there have been long queues on the pavements outside, and some folk are reported to have queued for 2 hours to get much-needed prescriptions; security guards have been called in to keep order. And also worrying, the general hospital inn Elgin that serves Morayshire has had no consultant on night duty on 5 days last month, so nurses would have to cope with emergencies. The NHS is almost overwhelmed here, with operations cancelled and routine activity much delayed. Given that Health is a devolved matter to what extent do you consider the SNP government is responsible for this?
|
|
|
Post by somerjohn on Aug 7, 2022 11:20:12 GMT
Davywel: "But the D.Tel preaches that the only solution to the water crisis is more reservoirs and schemes to rob places with reasonable provision by piping to Southern England."
There seems to me a blindingly obvious, market-based solution to water shortages that I have never seen proposed or discussed. So I offer it free to any movers/shakers who want to develop a clear, distinctive policy for their ministers, parties, think tanks, newspaper columns or whatever.
Around one third (from memory) of treated water is lost by leakage from pipes, totalling a staggering 3bn litres PER DAY. The government answer is based on targets, monitoring and threatened penalties. The water companies spend as little as they can get away with and hone their already well-developed gaming skills, because it's much cheaper to waste water than fix the system. As a result, progress, if any, in leak reduction is painfully slow. Further take-up of water meters also proceeds at snail's pace.
So why not a levy on every litre of treated water the companies input to their distribution systems? Equalled by the same rebate on every litre metered and charged to customers. A levy of £1 per cubic meter would yield around £3m a day, or a billion a year, from leakage, and rather more than the same again from unmetered supplies. That would make the watercos sit up and take notice.
It would be a sort of reverse VAT, with the water companies making payments directly proportional to their water losses through leakage. The faster they fix leaks, and install water meters, the less they pay. Shareholders will have a direct financial interest in reduced losses. And if the levy is set at a rate that successfully incentivises significant and progressive leak reduction, there will be no need for extra reservoirs or North-South transfers. It will even raise taxation revenue for the government in a way that's painless for the punters and earns brownie points for holding the big bad water companies' toes to the fire.
No brainer?
|
|
|
Post by alec on Aug 7, 2022 11:35:25 GMT
somerjohn - great idea, better still to start it now, but with the payments only being required to commence in three years time, so the water companies have three years to get stuff done.
|
|
|
Post by hireton on Aug 7, 2022 11:43:17 GMT
Why is it always the anti-Labour voices, say Colin, or the pretend-Labour supporters, e.g. Chris Aberavon, right-wing Times & Sunday Telegraph columnists, & the I-am-so-disenchanted-with-Labour-I-can't-bring-myself-to-vote-for-them LOCs who are always demanding that Starmer/Labour finalises his/their agenda two years before a GE, while those who do intend voting Labour are more content with a long game? Brown is calling for an emergency budget & a recall of Parliament with his customary & impressive moral fervour -- but it isn't going to happen. No-one is going to pay much attention to Starmer or Labour at the moment, though the Guardian seems determined to give the maximum publicity to Tarry. The game will resume when the PM emerges, has or does not have a honeymoon, when Parliament resumes 1st week of September. followed by the Party conferences, more strikes & the threat of strikes, & then the horror of the October energy price rises, the Autumn budget and a winter of crisis. I am prepared to wait and judge where we are in a few months. I agree with this with one exception. I think Labour could steal a significant tactical march on the Tories if they announce proposals re energy costs just before or when the next price cap is announced in late August.
|
|
|
Post by somerjohn on Aug 7, 2022 11:48:43 GMT
Alec: " better still to start it now, but with the payments only being required to commence in three years time"
Indeed. That would fit nicely with the electoral timetable, if Labour were to announce such a policy now. And if the Tories pinch the idea? Well, fine, because the country would benefit and Labour would get at least some credit as the party with the answers. Or, if Labour policy wheels grind too slow for that, then the LDs could do with some distinctive real-world policies.
|
|
steve
Member
Posts: 11,486
Member is Online
|
Post by steve on Aug 7, 2022 11:49:55 GMT
For those interested in civil disobedience as a method of changing policy worth having a look at dontpay.uk which seems to be gaining momentum in respect of customer revolt on energy bills
|
|
|
Post by hireton on Aug 7, 2022 11:51:06 GMT
The historian Robert Saunders has drawn attention to the strange Daily Telegraph editorial supporting Truss and its raging against the "left blob" which it sees as the source of all wrongs in the UK ( cf Farage address to CPAC in my earlier tweet)
As he points out there is now a void where the traditional Tory Party used to be:
His view from earlier that the Tories risked becoming a zombie party without a living intelligence seems increasingly well founded.
|
|
steve
Member
Posts: 11,486
Member is Online
|
Post by steve on Aug 7, 2022 12:10:17 GMT
hireton When there isn't a real enemy and your own policies are designed to damage the majority there's always othering to fall back on, in this case the pretence of a left wing secret cabal amongst the " establishment " the "people's champions against this wokery" are also of course part of the same establishment but othering never needed any independent logic it's a creed not a policy. It's cousin to q anon, brother to anti semitism and islamophobia and child of Nazism. It's a pernicious movement in right wing political thought that is fast undermining the concept of a plural democracy. When only one side accepts the principle of objective truth and that there's nothing wrong and plenty to be applauded in trying to understand others concerns and accommodate them where possible ( which in essence is all that " woke" means) we are all in for a more miserable and nastier life.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Aug 7, 2022 12:15:37 GMT
Why is it always the anti-Labour voices, ......... e.g. ........ right-wing Times who are always demanding that Starmer/Labour finalises his/their agenda two years before a GE, ? I quoted Steve Richards in ST today. He isn't "right wing"
|
|
|
Post by thexterminatingdalek on Aug 7, 2022 12:17:08 GMT
somerjohn and alecIf the balance of the fines were collected in the form of shares, the threat of the government obtaining a majority share and able to stop paying dividends might focus minds.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Aug 7, 2022 12:17:28 GMT
Truss has been "misinterpreted" again-first time on public sector pay-now on "handouts".
Her GE campaign is going to be fun to watch.
|
|
c-a-r-f-r-e-w
Member
A step on the way toward the demise of the liberal elite? Or just a blip…
Posts: 5,635
|
Post by c-a-r-f-r-e-w on Aug 7, 2022 12:17:43 GMT
“While tax cuts and even trans issues may have stolen the limelight in the Tory leadership race, the struggle to get a grip of record NHS backlogs post-Covid is having a huge economic, as well as human, cost.
…
An extra 378,000 people have left the job market since the pandemic struck in a deterioration that is almost unique to Britain in Europe.
Of these economically inactive people, an additional 201,000 are out of work due to long-term sickness as NHS backlogs build and long Covid lingers.
Jeremy Hunt, the Conservative MP and Britain’s longest serving health secretary, says the crisis is “definitely the worst in our lifetimes”.
“The question we have to ask is, why is it that we’re spending broadly the same as France and Germany, and yet both those countries have many more doctors per head than we have?” he says.
…
Widespread staff shortages are being exacerbated by a healthcare system unable to cope with backlogs and the legacy of Covid that is stopping many from seeking jobs.
While most countries have seen employment levels quickly return to pre-pandemic levels, there remains a big hole in the UK’s sickly workforce. Britain has seen the biggest increase in economic inactivity among its workers in the G7 as it is hamstrung by an NHS that experts say is understaffed, underfunded and stretched by the crisis in social care. “
Telegraph
|
|
c-a-r-f-r-e-w
Member
A step on the way toward the demise of the liberal elite? Or just a blip…
Posts: 5,635
|
Post by c-a-r-f-r-e-w on Aug 7, 2022 12:21:40 GMT
The historian Robert Saunders has drawn attention to the strange Daily Telegraph editorial supporting Truss and its raging against the "left blob" which it sees as the source of all wrongs in the UK . They’re not even that left wing of a blob
|
|
|
Post by robbiealive on Aug 7, 2022 12:23:38 GMT
The game will resume when the PM emerges, has or does not have a honeymoon, when Parliament resumes 1st week of September. followed by the Party conferences, more strikes & the threat of strikes, & then the horror of the October energy price rises, the Autumn budget and a winter of crisis. I am prepared to wait and judge where we are in a few months. I agree with this with one exception. I think Labour could steal a significant tactical march on the Tories if they announce proposals re energy costs just before or when the next price cap is announced in late August. Yes. On reflection, better to say, wait weeks for Labour's follow-up to Brown's plea on energy prices & months to make an overall judgement. PS. My memory is hazy but was it not Brown who allied with Tory rebels to force down VAT on gas/elec in the dying days of Major's government, in 1996? He then carried thru a reduction to 5% after '97, the minimum permitted under EU rules>
|
|
steve
Member
Posts: 11,486
Member is Online
|
Post by steve on Aug 7, 2022 12:24:22 GMT
Apparently the Tory party ballot paper out to the snowy white peaks of the membership today contains a handy guide from the Tory party chairman as to who is to blame for the current shambles. It might come as a surprise to some not under the influence of recreational pharmaceuticals that it's actually Kier Starmer, Angela Raynor and Emily Thornburry who inflicted the disastrous Corbyn government that we all remember so well handy photographs are provided of the enemies of the people in case the membership had forgotten what the last government looked like. It might come as a surprise to Starmer having ejected Corbyn from the party and not voting for him in the first place and Jeremy that he's not actually prime minister but I'm sure it makes sense to the intended audience.
|
|
c-a-r-f-r-e-w
Member
A step on the way toward the demise of the liberal elite? Or just a blip…
Posts: 5,635
|
Post by c-a-r-f-r-e-w on Aug 7, 2022 12:24:36 GMT
Our woefully unrepresentative electoral system, coming as it does with poor turnout and high voter non-registration, forces politicians to preoccupy themselves with the needs, wishes and prejudices of a minority of our citizens whose views are scandalously over-represented too in public discourse dictated by our politically and demographically skewed mainstream media. Maybe the real political prize deserves to go to the party and politicians who can liberate us from our strait-jacketed thinking about how our society should work. Decline to stuff the usual mouths with gold, refuse to pander to the loud and siren voices off stage right and just take the game away from the people who always seem to write its rules. That's real insurgency. Not tinkering with tax rates and blathering on about illusory brexit benefits. It isn't totally about economic issues either, although dealing with crippling social problems and gross inequality rely on economic measures to address them, but much more about recalibrating our politics, our constitutional settlement, our democracy. I think a new Social Contract, that binds governments to provide minimum standards of public service for all its citizens would be a good start. In return, we may all be required to vote, for example, and be obliged to be active citizens and not passive spectators. Revitalise democracy and I think we may all be surprised what might ensue. Since you are advocating activism, how do you think this should be done and who should do it? The Green Party, who might be interested in radical change, have never really got anywhere under FPTP and Corbyn led Labour's attempt to shift the Overton window ultimately failed (NB: it failed for several reasons, but I have no wish to start another round of the interminable and intensely boring UKPR pro/anti Corbyn debate). Starmer is being strictly 'safety-first'. Well, leaving aside the pros and cons of Corbyn, there is an argument the window did shift leftwards, hence the need to ditch austerity and at least pretend to level up etc.
|
|