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Post by wb61 on Aug 4, 2022 13:34:48 GMT
I was fooled once ... Coalition ... Clegg ... Won't happen again. Clegg fooled many people, including most of the Lib Dem membership. Of course, had the Lib Dems elected Chris Huhne instead, they would have been the first Party to have its leader convicted for perverting the course of justice. It is a sad reflection on the Party's MPs at the time, that they were the only two candidates for the leadership after Ming Campbell stepped down in 2007. Had Vince Cable stood for leader then, I believe he would have won with a landslide and the whole history of 2010-15 would have been very different. you might like this www.youtube.com/watch?v=SHhrZgojY1Q
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Post by mercian on Aug 4, 2022 13:36:24 GMT
oldnat After all these years you still don't get me. I do apologise for not putting a 😁 after the last sentence of that particular post. I just pity them for living in the south-east (of England) when they could be in the West Midlands (of England). 🤣 So where does your water come from? (source I mean, before you respond "the tap") Mercian rain for Mercian people? I believe it's from boreholes in Staffordshire. But it was a general point, not meant to be specifically about water.
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c-a-r-f-r-e-w
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A step on the way toward the demise of the liberal elite? Or just a blip…
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Post by c-a-r-f-r-e-w on Aug 4, 2022 13:36:41 GMT
To be fair mercian I would be a bit concerned if a Labour MP felt they could or should be elected as a Libdem or Tory. I'm not keen on the one who has switched to Labour for instance. I don't know why I'm turning into such a big defender of Corbyn except I feel he gets a savaging on here that I can't see he deserves. I'm prepared to give Starmer a chance but his rightward drift for me is unsettling. I totally get why a non Labour supporter would see Corbyn as an anathema but then that to me would be just more proof of his Labour credentials. For a while I hoped MrMibbles wonderful moment in June 2017 was just the start and there would be a youthful surge of change a la @carfew policies… …A return to the centre was therefore inevitable. We will never have a socialist nirvana now but I'll just settle for a minority Govmt. I'm that desperate and never mind selling out socialist principles, I'd sell my own mother to achieve it if she was still alive.😉 well, I haven’t really given a great deal of my policy stance, which isn’t very socialist. I favour a mix of left and right policies, or of socialist, conservative, liberal, green and so on. It’s not very purist. But were the policies of the Corbyn era all so extreme? Some may just assume some policies are too extreme, but really, is nationalising energy so extreme, esp. in the current crisis? This board has always been dominated by the right, (not surprising given AW’s modding etc. - this new board has allowed more of a showing by the left). Not too many talk fondly of the idea of nationalising key utilities, and they don’t even have any concern about New Labour introducing more of the private sector into health and education. But among the electorate, some nationalisation has often been popular, and here is some recent polling on energy, where you can see how many want public ownership: labourlist.org/2022/03/exclusive-majority-of-uk-backs-public-ownership-of-energy-firms-poll-shows/starmer betraying his pledges on such things is not necessarily a case of rejecting the extreme or idealistic, or the electorally unviable, it can be more just favouring the right, and possibly needlessly given the polling.
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c-a-r-f-r-e-w
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A step on the way toward the demise of the liberal elite? Or just a blip…
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Post by c-a-r-f-r-e-w on Aug 4, 2022 13:37:09 GMT
“A majority of UK adults support bringing energy companies back into public ownership, exclusive polling by Savanta ComRes for LabourList reveals amid the energy crisis that will see household bills rise by £693 on average in April. The new research has found that a total of 55% back the renewed public ownership of energy, while just 8% said they would oppose the policy. 23% said they neither supported nor opposed it, and 15% said they did not know. Among voters who chose to back the Tories at the 2019 general election, majority support was also found, with 55% endorsing the move. 68% of 2019 Labour voters approved of the policy proposal, along with 54% of Lib Dems.” labourlist.org/2022/03/exclusive-majority-of-uk-backs-public-ownership-of-energy-firms-poll-shows/
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Post by pete on Aug 4, 2022 13:53:31 GMT
pjw1961 My point was that it doesn't actually require an organised mass payment refusal but inability to pay would have the same impact. We're close to the point this winter where if we're unlucky with the weather millions of individual's living from month to month on income received will face energy bills so huge they simply can't pay . No amount of final demands are going to change that. And if they do manage to scrap together the money to pay their fuel bills other things will be dropped from peoples weekly lives (hitting takeaways, pubs, restaurants, clothes buying, hair cuts etc). I've already cut the pub out.
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alurqa
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Post by alurqa on Aug 4, 2022 13:54:03 GMT
I am very much in favour of border controls and a system of visas / permits which flexes to our economic requirements. The numbers are irrelevant in such circumstances because they would be planned economically. Planned economically? Who does the planning? Who knows what the economy needs? When we had free movement the market took care of this. Those that came but couldn't get a job would return home. Of course our economy was attractive to many from Eastern Europe because we offered increased wages. And some of the excess money earned could be set back to their home countries, thus improving those economically. It takes time, but market forces will eventually rebalance things. Naturally here you had those that complained that this was suppressing wages. But now we have our (armed) border force and no one can get in (well apart from those thousands that still do manage to get into This fortress built by Nature for herself). So we can put up wages without attracting all these bloody foreigners. Why aren't we? Brexit was about taking back control. We have control.[1] I read that care homes are reducing the number of beds because they can't get the staff and can't afford to put up wages because people won't pay. So our hospitals are full of people they can't get rid of. I notice there's no planning going on because the planners are too busy taking chunks out of each other, singing songs such as 'my tax cut's bigger than your tax cut.' Sorry, got sidetracked there: my point: free movement let the market do the planning. That was a big benefit of EU membership, we were part of an enormous market.
But I fear that "legal" routes will be increasingly inadequate for the thousands who want to escape poverty and war and come to the EU & UK. And to continue my point above, with freedom of movement those that were still poor once they arrived here could then freely leave and find work elsewhere. The media twisted this to give the impression that all migrants were sponging off the state. It wasn't, and isn't, true. But migrants have a very strong work ethic through necessity. Of course many of those voters on the authoritarian end of the scale (both left and right) don't see that, they only see skin colour. Our economy is ageing -- we need immigrants.
Oh yes, and I forgot to mention: we need a massive council house building project across the country. That will help not just immigrants but everyone else. Well, apart from those obsessed with their house price and how 'rich' they are. Think of the jobs it would create, the income it would generate, the lives it would improve...
(I know, those don't matter because the view will be spoilt.)
[1] Sorry, I laughed when I typed this.
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Post by somerjohn on Aug 4, 2022 14:04:58 GMT
Alurqa: "Planned economically? Who does the planning?'
Yes, it's very odd to see RoC commentators singing the praises of central planning.
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Post by mercian on Aug 4, 2022 14:12:51 GMT
Well he said he did. And earlier I read this article that supports such thoughts: www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2022/aug/04/uk-policing-and-border-control-infiltrated-by-war-mentality-says-reportUK policing and border control infiltrated by war mentality, says report Policing, border control and surveillance have become increasingly militarised in the UK and infiltrated by a “war mentality”, according to a report.
It says there is an increasingly blurred line between the police and the military and that key areas including counter-terrorism, anti-protest policing, border control and the policing of gangs have adopted a war mentality.This should worry us all. The fact that it says people of colour are identified as being at greatest risk of being targeted makes me agree with somerjohn 's thoughts. Why are we targeting them? Is this the islamaphobic tendency in the Tory party -- which the media never seem to get round to highlighting while gushing with joy whenever it can at Labour's alleged antisemitism -- that is driving this, I wonder? It. Is. A. Disgrace. As someone once said. Could it be because in the last few years it's usually them who go in for bombings and mass stabbings in this country?
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c-a-r-f-r-e-w
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Post by c-a-r-f-r-e-w on Aug 4, 2022 14:29:05 GMT
To be fair mercian I would be a bit concerned if a Labour MP felt they could or should be elected as a Libdem or Tory. I'm not keen on the one who has switched to Labour for instance. I don't know why I'm turning into such a big defender of Corbyn except I feel he gets a savaging on here that I can't see he deserves. I'm prepared to give Starmer a chance but his rightward drift for me is unsettling. I totally get why a non Labour supporter would see Corbyn as an anathema but then that to me would be just more proof of his Labour credentials. For a while I hoped MrMibbles wonderful moment in June 2017 was just the start and there would be a youthful surge of change a la @carfew policies. It’s not unusual to see arguments of two kinds: 1. That it’d be great to have more left wing policy, but we have to move to the right to get elected first. (The problem of course is that what actually tends to happen is the right wingers move to the left to get elected then tack right after) 2. That it’d be great to have more left wing policy, in principle. But in practice, they would argue, it’s a fantasy because the electorate won’t wear it. (which is not necessarily the case at all, as we can see with nationalisations). one might additionally add variations, like the media won’t wear it etc. In reality, though some might occasionally say when pressed that they might ideally prefer a rather more left wing policy, they kind of leave it there and say not a great deal more about the insane rents and markets taking the piss with energy prices and the lack of good jobs. Except maybe advocating the occasional more marginal measure. They will tend to campaign instead on the things they are much more bothered about, like Brexit etc. (even after we just had a referendum on the matter).
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Post by jib on Aug 4, 2022 14:29:37 GMT
thylacine Of course I am and the Greens and SNP and PC and SF and the Alliance and the SDLP and anyone else I've forgotten who has a generally progressive agenda. Just because mathematics particularly under fptp means they may have involvement with right wing parties at local and national level doesn't make them right wing. It's also entirely possible for right wing parties to have some progressive policies. When it's possible to cooperate then of course we should. Rather than pointing fingers and shouting unclean if someone has transgressed dogma or,heaven forfend admits that another political party might actually be the better choice in the circumstances doesn't make them card carrying tories. It's what the left of Labour never seems to grasp. I was fooled once ... Coalition ... Clegg ... Won't happen again. Indeed. Never forget, never forgive the Orange Book Tories. Reduced to a rent a cause shambles.
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c-a-r-f-r-e-w
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Post by c-a-r-f-r-e-w on Aug 4, 2022 14:36:10 GMT
c-a-r-f-r-e-w I suspect Cummings and The real consumer champion Martin Lewis are right, whether it will be mass refusal or simply inability to pay the impact of hundreds of thousands if not millions of non payments will be profound. Meanwhile cos play Maggie came up with this blunder tonight: Quizzed for the first time in front of Conservative members on a controversial policy that she was forced to U-turn on earlier this week, the frontrunner in the Tory leadership race said she never intended to slash the pay of teachers and nurses. So precisely whose pay did She intend to slash in her £8.8 billion saving plan? Even if she doesn’t slash it, public sector pay needs a boost frankly… there have been numerous occasions since 2010 my partner has not had a pay rise.
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c-a-r-f-r-e-w
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Post by c-a-r-f-r-e-w on Aug 4, 2022 14:50:48 GMT
Not so huge if you are on a pre-payment meter like most of the poorest. Just more middle-class dick-headery. It is overdue for redistribution of wealth to arise from the grave to which Thatcher thought she had consigned it. But not going to happen under Starmer, sadly. If the Tories started advocating more state involvement in the energy market to bring prices down (big if, I know), would Starmer change position on the matter?
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Post by alec on Aug 4, 2022 15:20:27 GMT
Never quite the same without TOH, but the 2022 Strawberry Report is in and makes for pretty good reading. Not quite the record year of '21, but once again a heavy crop, aided by early sunshine and plenty of watering during the dry weather. Humid and wet conditions more recently have led to an element of rot and some slug damage, and without that it would have been a second consecutive record yield, but all in all a very good year with plenty of jam in the cupboard.
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Post by graham on Aug 4, 2022 15:25:27 GMT
Alurqa: "Planned economically? Who does the planning?'Yes, it's very odd to see RoC commentators singing the praises of central planning. Perhaps we are heading back to the era of George Brown and his 1965 National Plan!
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Post by alec on Aug 4, 2022 15:34:57 GMT
Talking of Cummings, UK superpower science was one of his big ideas. However, it seems like everything this government does ends up bogged down in a complicated, centralised bureaucratic mess - www.theguardian.com/science/2022/aug/04/science-superpower-plan-risks-making-uk-bureaucracy-superpower-says-peerThey really are struggling to deliver anything of note, and their legacy really is shaping up to be one of the thinnest of any post war government. The 2019 leaflets said "Vote Conservative to Get Stuff Done", but all we've seen is a sclerotic shambles of missed opportunities and failed initiatives. On the economic news today, it's terrible. The immediate triggers are not all the Conservatives fault, although a badly botched Brexit deal and total policy delivery failure since 2019 clearly are, but the country is going into this crisis period in a terribly weakened state, with chronic under investment and poor management for the last decade plus putting us in a uniquely vulnerable position. On top of that, we have two people vying for the premiership who are competing to craft the most economically illiterate manifesto in history. Tough times ahead.
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alurqa
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Post by alurqa on Aug 4, 2022 15:46:34 GMT
Perhaps off topic, but as I have recently had conversations about investing in crypto-currencies and NFTs (non-fugnible tokens) with both my kids I thought this may be of interest. If they have heard of NFTs then they must becoming widely known. My advice to both was to treat the money as already lost -- of course because these things are so volatile they could also be millionaires. Personally I wouldn't invest; this article reinforces my views: www.theregister.com/2022/08/04/solana_wallet_slope/?td=rt-3aSolana, Phantom blame Slope after millions in crypto-coins stolen from 8,000 wallets Millions of dollars worth of Solana cryptocurrency and other tokens were stolen from seemingly thousands of netizens this week by thieves exploiting some kind of security weakness or blunder.
From what we can tell, and details are still light, somewhere between $4.5 million and $8 million in coins – including stablecoins USDC and USDT, and Solana's SOL – were taken from roughly 8,000 Slope and Phantom mobile app wallets.The comments are often the best part of El Reg. This one is particularly in tune with my thinking: Somehow I think the target audience of these articles does not intersect the set of gullible morons willing to swap their real cash for imaginary binary bollocks on a blockchain.I stress, of course, that I am NOT offering any investing advice. :-)
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pjw1961
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Post by pjw1961 on Aug 4, 2022 15:53:07 GMT
Sorry, what was the topic again?
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Post by Deleted on Aug 4, 2022 15:54:56 GMT
I am very much in favour of border controls and a system of visas / permits which flexes to our economic requirements. The numbers are irrelevant in such circumstances because they would be planned economically. Planned economically? Who does the planning? Who knows what the economy needs? I believe this body of experts :- en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Migration_Advisory_Committee
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Post by Deleted on Aug 4, 2022 16:02:36 GMT
Good to see Colin that you are now as scathing of Sunak & Truss's ludicrous campaigns as the rest of us: esp as you lionised Sunak until recently. Bukt rather than give us yr "predictable" predictions of the economic horror-show that we all know lies ahead, & hv known for some months, perhaps you could complete yr apostasy by telling us where yr government & yr party has gone wrong in the last 12 years. In yr answer feel free to make copious references to Brexit & to Johnson's administration. I wouldn't say "scathing" of Sunak. I think he is the only one of the duo which would be capable of coping with the factors I posted about. But he shares with Truss a failure to explain them properly and honestly. I'm impressed that , to you, the post pandemic labour market disruption & supply chain seizure , the invasion of Ukraine, the interruption of Russian gas supplies ; and the resultant inflation were all "predictable". Amazing. The Conservative Party isn't "mine" in the sense of being a member of it. It is the ROC offering to voters in this country ( though there was an alternative in 1997) Where has Johnson gone wrong ?. Not taking his role seriously would be my answer.
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Post by jib on Aug 4, 2022 16:04:04 GMT
Perhaps off topic, but as I have recently had conversations about investing in crypto-currencies and NFTs (non-fugnible tokens) with both my kids I thought this may be of interest. If they have heard of NFTs then they must becoming widely known. My advice to both was to treat the money as already lost -- of course because these things are so volatile they could also be millionaires. Personally I wouldn't invest; this article reinforces my views: www.theregister.com/2022/08/04/solana_wallet_slope/?td=rt-3aSolana, Phantom blame Slope after millions in crypto-coins stolen from 8,000 wallets Millions of dollars worth of Solana cryptocurrency and other tokens were stolen from seemingly thousands of netizens this week by thieves exploiting some kind of security weakness or blunder.
From what we can tell, and details are still light, somewhere between $4.5 million and $8 million in coins – including stablecoins USDC and USDT, and Solana's SOL – were taken from roughly 8,000 Slope and Phantom mobile app wallets.The comments are often the best part of El Reg. This one is particularly in tune with my thinking: Somehow I think the target audience of these articles does not intersect the set of gullible morons willing to swap their real cash for imaginary binary bollocks on a blockchain.I stress, of course, that I am NOT offering any investing advice. :-)Couldn't agree more. The whole Blockchain nonsense is another Pyramid scheme. It's the ones left in at the end that will pay the price whilst those that "rode the wave" enjoy spending their cash.
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Post by barbara on Aug 4, 2022 16:27:12 GMT
Re Tesla sales, we are now seriously considering buying an electric car, but it will not be a Tesla as we do not like Elon Musk and his views For similar reasons we won't spend any money in Weatherspoons. Nor go on holiday in Russia, Turkey or Hungary etc We will not give any of our money to people and or organisations we don't like. Or buy from Amazon in my case.
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Post by shevii on Aug 4, 2022 16:33:51 GMT
Redfield & Wilton Strategies @redfieldwilton · 2m Labour leads by 8%. Westminster Voting Intention (4 August): Labour 40% (+2) Conservative 32% (-2) Liberal Democrat 13% (+1) Green 4% (-3) Scottish National Party 4% (–) Reform UK 4% (–) Plaid Cymru 1% (+1) Other 2% (+1) Changes +/-31 July redfieldandwiltonstrategies.com/magnified-email/issue-46
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Post by shevii on Aug 4, 2022 16:39:59 GMT
Truss leads Starmer 37% to 35% for best Prime Minister "at the moment". Just thought I'd throw that in there.
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Post by crossbat11 on Aug 4, 2022 16:48:17 GMT
“A majority of UK adults support bringing energy companies back into public ownership, exclusive polling by Savanta ComRes for LabourList reveals amid the energy crisis that will see household bills rise by £693 on average in April. The new research has found that a total of 55% back the renewed public ownership of energy, while just 8% said they would oppose the policy. 23% said they neither supported nor opposed it, and 15% said they did not know. Among voters who chose to back the Tories at the 2019 general election, majority support was also found, with 55% endorsing the move. 68% of 2019 Labour voters approved of the policy proposal, along with 54% of Lib Dems.” labourlist.org/2022/03/exclusive-majority-of-uk-backs-public-ownership-of-energy-firms-poll-shows/Yet, in 2019, they voted in large numbers for a party that didn't offer the slightest prospect of bringing energy companies back into public ownership. As of course they did in 1983 and 2017 when these much sought after and enticing policy prescriptions were offered to them. What were they missing? Why do you think the electorate keeps voting against not only their best interests but also, according to these polls anyway, their clear preferences on how they want the economy organised too? To do it once may be an aberration, twice maybe a coincidence but three times....... I've always been intrigued too by voters, so disgruntled with the lack of socialist policies on offer from a right wing Labour Party, vote Tory instead. A protest vote, perhaps? Steer Labour leftwards by putting the Tories in? It has a sort of counter-intuitive genius to it I suppose. Another possibility, I suppose, to explain this continuous eccentric voting behaviour, is that the polls on this stuff are load of old Horlicks. Or Hobnobs.
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Post by graham on Aug 4, 2022 16:55:13 GMT
“A majority of UK adults support bringing energy companies back into public ownership, exclusive polling by Savanta ComRes for LabourList reveals amid the energy crisis that will see household bills rise by £693 on average in April. The new research has found that a total of 55% back the renewed public ownership of energy, while just 8% said they would oppose the policy. 23% said they neither supported nor opposed it, and 15% said they did not know. Among voters who chose to back the Tories at the 2019 general election, majority support was also found, with 55% endorsing the move. 68% of 2019 Labour voters approved of the policy proposal, along with 54% of Lib Dems.” labourlist.org/2022/03/exclusive-majority-of-uk-backs-public-ownership-of-energy-firms-poll-shows/Yet, in 2019, they voted in large numbers for a party that didn't offer the slightest prospect of bringing energy companies back into public ownership. As of course they did in 1983 and 2017 when these much sought after and enticing policy prescriptions were offered to them. What were they missing? Why do you think the electorate keeps voting against not only their best interests but also, according to these polls anyway, their clear preferences on how they want the economy organised too? To do it once may be an aberration, twice maybe a coincidence but three times....... I've always been intrigued too by voters, so disgruntled with the lack of socialist policies on offer from a right wing Labour Party, vote Tory instead. A protest vote, perhaps? Steer Labour leftwards by putting the Tories in? It has a sort of counter-intuitive genius to it I suppose. Another possibility, I suppose, to explain this continuous eccentric voting behaviour, is that the polls on this stuff are load of old Horlicks. Or Hobnobs. On each of those occasions renationalisation was not a particularly salient issue - being easily overridden by other factors. Moreover, Thatcher's privatisation programme had not really got under way in 1983 - BT being the first largescale sell-off in 1984 - with British Gas following in 1986.
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c-a-r-f-r-e-w
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Post by c-a-r-f-r-e-w on Aug 4, 2022 16:59:02 GMT
“A majority of UK adults support bringing energy companies back into public ownership, exclusive polling by Savanta ComRes for LabourList reveals amid the energy crisis that will see household bills rise by £693 on average in April. The new research has found that a total of 55% back the renewed public ownership of energy, while just 8% said they would oppose the policy. 23% said they neither supported nor opposed it, and 15% said they did not know. Among voters who chose to back the Tories at the 2019 general election, majority support was also found, with 55% endorsing the move. 68% of 2019 Labour voters approved of the policy proposal, along with 54% of Lib Dems.” labourlist.org/2022/03/exclusive-majority-of-uk-backs-public-ownership-of-energy-firms-poll-shows/Yet, in 2019, they voted in large numbers for a party that didn't offer the slightest prospect of bringing energy companies back into public ownership. As of course they did in 1983 and 2017 when these much sought after and enticing policy prescriptions were offered to them. What were they missing? Why do you think the electorate keeps voting against not only their best interests but also, according to these polls anyway, their clear preferences on how they want the economy organised too? To do it once may be an aberration, twice maybe a coincidence but three times....... I've always been intrigued too by voters, so disgruntled with the lack of socialist policies on offer from a right wing Labour Party, vote Tory instead. A protest vote, perhaps? Steer Labour leftwards by putting the Tories in? It has a sort of counter-intuitive genius to it I suppose. Another possibility, I suppose, to explain this continuous eccentric voting behaviour, is that the polls on this stuff are load of old Horlicks. Or Hobnobs. People have explained this many times, or aspects of it. if a party fails to get elected there are a range of factors to consider, not just policies. - competence may well take precedence. people may like the policies but not trust to deliver. Perceptions of Competence may be affected by other factions attacking the party, as happened to Corbyn, Major etc. The media can play a part, esp. if aided by a faction within the party, as with Corbyn - or, they may like the economic policies but not like some other stuff, e.g. stance in NATO etc. - at times, the vote may be split. Labour we’re doing well in the polls under Foot until SDP split. - the opposition may shift leftwards, or at least appear to, as Tories did with levelling up - the electorate might like the Leftie policies but someone ran a bad campaign - there was some unexpected event that skewed things. War, global crash, or indeed global boom etc. That’s why it’s quite good to consider polling on the policies.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 4, 2022 17:00:13 GMT
It seems somewhat naive to me to conflate opinion polls on specific policies, be it nationalisation, windfall taxes or anything else one cares to name, with general election results and the administration that follows.
Our FPTP system could almost have been designed to ensure that, whichever government happens to be in power, because it has been elected by a minority of voters - never mind of the total population! - they will very rarely be be enacting any policies that command popular support.
It is a stupid system and we deserve better.
(Or actually, given the lack of attention given to it generally - maybe we don’t?)
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c-a-r-f-r-e-w
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Post by c-a-r-f-r-e-w on Aug 4, 2022 17:01:16 GMT
It seems somewhat naive to me to conflate opinion polls on specific policies, be it nationalisation, windfall taxes or anything else one cares to name, with general election results and the administration that follows. We aren’t doing that. It is instead pointing out that some policies are not extreme, and they are not necessarily electorally toxic. Which is not the same as saying that adopting them will inevitably result in electoral success, as indeed there are various other factors affecting that.
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c-a-r-f-r-e-w
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A step on the way toward the demise of the liberal elite? Or just a blip…
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Post by c-a-r-f-r-e-w on Aug 4, 2022 17:05:58 GMT
Perhaps a word of friendly advice to those apparently wanting to fight the pure fight in labour. None repeat none of us on the progressive wing of politics are right wing in the same way as none repeat none in the Tory movement are left wing. Assigning the epithet " right wing" to the current leadership of the Labour party simply makes the job of the genuine right wingers to retain power easier. Well, on the one hand you complain if considered right wing, but then label the left as purist! I don’t think too many on the left are labelling you guys purist, dogmatic, idealistic extremists, the way the lefties get labelled! It’s not like most of the left are clamouring for 90% tax rates, inheritance tax for anything over £50k, nationalising whole swathes of industry, and introducing a Universal Basic Income of £30k a year. Sane house prices is not really out at the extremes is it. Ramping house prices up rather has been more extreme. We used to have saner housing policy, it’s not an impossible dream. It isn’t extreme to want to at least introduce some state involvement in the energy sector, France have just bought out the rest of EDF. We have been forced to bail out some suppliers anyway, might as well put them in the market as a state player. Creating more good jobs is not extreme either. If you look at Corbyn’s 2017 manifesto, be interested to know how much you might consider extreme? (I think some might have issues with the nuclear stance
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Post by robbiealive on Aug 4, 2022 17:09:20 GMT
Good to see Colin that you are now as scathing of Sunak & Truss's ludicrous campaigns as the rest of us: esp as you lionised Sunak until recently. Bukt rather than give us yr "predictable" predictions of the economic horror-show that we all know lies ahead, & hv known for some months, perhaps you could complete yr apostasy by telling us where yr government & yr party has gone wrong in the last 12 years. In yr answer feel free to make copious references to Brexit & to Johnson's administration. I wouldn't say "scathing" of Sunak. I think he is the only one of the duo which would be capable of coping with the factors I posted about. But he shares with Truss a failure to explain them properly and honestly. I'm impressed that , to you, the post pandemic labour market disruption & supply chain seizure , the invasion of Ukraine, the interruption of Russian gas supplies ; and the resultant inflation were all "predictable". Amazing. The Conservative Party isn't "mine" in the sense of being a member of it. It is the ROC offering to voters in this country ( though there was an alternative in 1997) Where has Johnson gone wrong ?. Not taking his role seriously would be my answer. I didn't refer to any of the exogenous causes of the current crisis that you listed but to your dire warnings, which we all recognise & share, of the economic depression & intensification of the cost of living crisis which lie ahead; given the fact that we have had a Tory PM & Chancellor for twelve years , it seems reasonable to ask of one of the government's supporters why we appear to be in a weakned state to deal with these problems; and why the 5 or 6 candidates to replace Johnson are incapable of articulating a response. The government seems adrift & its leading lights quite helpless.
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