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Post by shevii on Dec 21, 2021 8:34:12 GMT
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Post by barbara on Dec 21, 2021 8:47:02 GMT
Oh no, now I realise I've been shirking by not spending all evening in the pub with my colleagues. No wonder I never get those pay rises.
Actually that might even be true.
Indeed it might @old southendian it's often one of the significant things that keeps the glass ceilings in place despite the (genuine) protestations that "in this organisation we treat everyone equally". Managers (usually white men of a certain age) gradually gain a specific rapport with or perceive a stronger sense of commitment from those employees inclined to stick around after hours, either to work hard or to play hard, and those who can't or won't do this are disproportionately going to be from groups already under-represented in the workplace, and particularly in management! The prevalence of alcohol limits the attraction to those who abstain for religious or lifestyle reasons, those whose domestic commitments (either to children or caring for adult relatives) preclude the extra time are disproportionately likely to be women, or indeed to be men with a less traditional view of work-life balance. And that's before we get to the #metoo aspects of drinking (or even working late) with older senior colleagues. I encountered this many times in my career. Interestingly in one of the places where I was a Director, there were 6 of us in the Corporate Management Team and the Chief Executive and 3 other directors including me, were women. It completely changed the tone of meetings and getting business done - and for those still living in the past, we didn't spend all our time talking about shopping and children ( I don't have any anyway) - what was noticeable was the meeting discipline and the lack of out of work/pub entertaining. Also a much more collaborative atmosphere with mutual problem solving. I'm not saying that men can't lead in that way but when teams are heavily male dominated the pressure to conform is difficult to resist for those men who would prefer a less masculine style. So mixed teams are healthy I think. |
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Post by crossbat11 on Dec 21, 2021 8:50:59 GMT
I did not have sec with that woman. Was she a bit of a brut, Colin??? |
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Post by barbara on Dec 21, 2021 8:52:09 GMT
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Post by crossbat11 on Dec 21, 2021 8:57:59 GMT
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steve
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Post by steve on Dec 21, 2021 8:59:30 GMT
" If they served cheese and wine at a Cobra meeting maybe the prime minister might turn up"
James O'Brien
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steve
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Post by steve on Dec 21, 2021 9:01:08 GMT
Crossbat.
Those trendy lefty prosecco guzzlers at darts matches aren't proper engerland!
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jib
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Post by jib on Dec 21, 2021 9:08:02 GMT
barbara and others I think the pictures of Boris and co enjoying after hours chillax / wind down are only likely to offend those already offended. Whilst I'm sure drinking and inevitable indiscretions in and around working hours is now frowned upon, there is no doubt that many, many decisions about corporate life are still made over drinks. Probably more in fact with the growth of corporate hospitality events. Those with commitments outside working hours are possibly even more excluded from those!
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Post by barbara on Dec 21, 2021 9:19:50 GMT
barbara and others I think the pictures of Boris and co enjoying after hours chillax / wind down are only likely to offend those already offended. Whilst I'm sure drinking and inevitable indiscretions in and around working hours is now frowned upon, there is no doubt that many, many decisions about corporate life are still made over drinks. Probably more in fact with the growth of corporate hospitality events. Those with commitments outside working hours are possibly even more excluded from those! Interesting if you look at the Downing Street garden photo how many of those present are women (apart from Carrie). Possibly 2? |
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Post by robert on Dec 21, 2021 9:23:18 GMT
Certainly some dreaming going on here tonight and nobody has considered whether a) the EU will still be around, or, assuming it is, b) whether they would actually invite us to rejoin!. They demanded our fishing grounds last time round, I wonder what they would want next time? Maybe they'd settle for Aston Villa? In addition to James E's accurate response, I would draw attention to Robert's "They demanded our fishing grounds last time round". It's one of those interesting phenomena that those in maritime states are conditioned to respond emotionally to fishing interests, when they are usually wholly ignorant of the realities of that industry. Both industry lobbyists and populist politicians use it as an emotional trigger, while ignoring the environmental benefits and the sustainable production that the industry could achieve. If the fishing industry was actually of paramount importance (either economically or emotionally) to a state, then adopting the CFP becomes an insuperable barrier to membership - c/f Norway and Iceland. UKGov, both in joining the EC and leaving the EU, demonstrated that it didn't give a damn about the fishing industry - simply using the richest and most voluble - the small number of deep sea trawler interests - as stimuli to press the buttons of such as Robert. In reality, French, Spanish, Belgian and Dutch boats already had extensive historic fishing rights in English waters. The relatively small inshore fishing fleet in the likes of Cornwall, and the extensive Scottish inshore fleet were wholly ignored both then and now. A government that actually cared about sustainable fishing would have negotiated increased protection for inshore waters, while recognising that the continental shelf was a single ecosystem that required joint management. Sadly, the opportunity was not only rejected, government were so disinterested that they didn't even realise the possibility existed.T Thanks Oldnat for your exceedingly factual response to my rather tongue in cheek post last night. I thought my inclusion of Aston Villa might have provided a clue that my comment was only half serious but a least @crofty spotted it as a bit of banter. However your reply did remind me of an incident some years ago when I worked for a German owned U.K. based pharmaceutical wholesaler. It was when England beat Germany 1-5 and you can imagine the office banter the following morning. One of my team (the office comedian) made a humorous quip to the German Group FD about the result (nothing to do with the war, I hasten to add) but instead of seeing the joke like everyone else, we were treated to a serious, 5 minute analysis of why the German team had been so badly humiliated. It seems Germans and Scotsmen are cut from the same cloth. Little surprise you are so keen to rejoin.😉 |
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Post by robert on Dec 21, 2021 9:26:48 GMT
Breaking news. There will be a special Cabernet meeting at number ten later today, bring your own cheese.. Not an ad hock meeting then? |
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Post by jib on Dec 21, 2021 9:38:59 GMT
barbaraYes, no surprises with that. Certainly corporate culture has changed in the last 25 years and alcohol with work isn't encouraged. I've tended, over my career, to see that Organisations and Departments with a strong after works drinking culture can demonstrate very closed working cultures / resistance to change, and the absolute decline of that due to COVID may not be a bad thing. Certainly sexist, racist and homophobic culture of 70s and 80s workplaces was withering on the vine by the 90s, and has virtually disappeared now. Whether that is hand in hand with decline of after work pubs and boozing? Probably.
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Post by catfuzz on Dec 21, 2021 9:41:25 GMT
barbara and others I think the pictures of Boris and co enjoying after hours chillax / wind down are only likely to offend those already offended. Whilst I'm sure drinking and inevitable indiscretions in and around working hours is now frowned upon, there is no doubt that many, many decisions about corporate life are still made over drinks. Probably more in fact with the growth of corporate hospitality events. Those with commitments outside working hours are possibly even more excluded from those! I don’t think the issue is that they are have a relaxed drink after work, it’s that they had explicitly disallowed the rest of the country from doing the same at this time. |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 21, 2021 9:47:59 GMT
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bantams
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Post by bantams on Dec 21, 2021 9:52:58 GMT
Aston Villa? Mrs Doyle would have something to say about that as she's a big Villa fan. I shouldn’t really engage with a one star member but who is Mrs Doyle and is she one of ole Batty’s very few chums? I'm bowing as I write this reply to you, difficult as it is, oh great two starrer! Mrs Doyle was the housekeeper in Father Ted & if Batty lived on Craggy Island at the time he would inevitably have encountered her. |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 21, 2021 10:00:24 GMT
Bantams: ta for respectful response.
Father Ted was a great programme with great characters.
I can offer training in how to achieve TWO STAR status by the way. Briefly, you just make very short posts containing a load of old bollocks and it gets awarded to you for perseverance. The five star people use the same method but more assiduously than wot I do. (and with a greater proportion of old bollocks of course.)
By the way, nobody should disrespect a fellow poster’s footy team. (Especially if it’s Newcastle.)
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Post by Deleted on Dec 21, 2021 10:03:53 GMT
"Scottish humour? No such thing, says Billy Connolly" Monday August 26 2019, The Times Says the bloke who told tenement jokes and swimming in the North Sea with woolly bathing costume jokes etc etc. |
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Post by somerjohn on Dec 21, 2021 10:04:34 GMT
I know some want to banish economic news to a separate thread when it's energy-related. But I think the potential political effect of the renewed surge in gas prices is worth noting.
Today's wholesale UK gas price is 398p/therm.
That's a staggering 8-fold increase on the price this time last year (49.1p). And given current weather conditions, use of gas for electricity is nudging 25GW, or 60% of total generation.
Thus far, UK domestic energy prices have reflected very little of this increase, having risen only 25% or so because of the price cap. In some other parts of Europe, domestic energy prices have responded much faster to wholesale prices (certainly that's the case in Spain). Unless the government introduces subsidies, then I think we're in for much bigger increases than most people seem to be anticipating. If bills increase by 50% or more in April, I wonder what effect that will have on polling.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 21, 2021 10:04:52 GMT
ps I meant Billy, not Colin; I’m not accusing him of making jokes - Scottish or otherwise.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 21, 2021 10:07:29 GMT
"Scottish humour? No such thing, says Billy Connolly" Monday August 26 2019, The Times Says the bloke who told tenement jokes and swimming in the North Sea with woolly bathing costume jokes etc etc. Its probably paywalled :- www.thetimes.co.uk/article/scottish-humour-no-such-thing-says-billy-connolly-nb2ql7ckxbut the key quote is :- " “I have bought books of Scottish jokes and then I go through them and there’s nothing Scottish about them." |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 21, 2021 10:07:38 GMT
“ "An event cancelled is better than a life cancelled," said WHO head Dr Tedros Adhanom Ghebreyesus, adding that "difficult decisions" must be made.”
Not sure Premier League bosses agree with that...
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Post by Deleted on Dec 21, 2021 10:14:53 GMT
If bills increase by 50% or more in April, I wonder what effect that will have on polling. Predictable I think. Times today has an article on the stickyness of inflation-unrelated to energy prices *. Interest rate ratchet forecast throughout 2022. As spring/summer ( hopefully!) takes pandemic down the news agenda, Cost of Living is going to emerge as a new problem for the Government. They will have to dust down those 70's treasury briefings . * Factors = Tight Labour Market/wage inflation. Factory Gate price increases. Demand exceeding Supply capacity ( supply chain etc) |
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Post by domjg on Dec 21, 2021 10:15:27 GMT
In addition to James E's accurate response, I would draw attention to Robert's "They demanded our fishing grounds last time round". It's one of those interesting phenomena that those in maritime states are conditioned to respond emotionally to fishing interests, when they are usually wholly ignorant of the realities of that industry. Both industry lobbyists and populist politicians use it as an emotional trigger, while ignoring the environmental benefits and the sustainable production that the industry could achieve. If the fishing industry was actually of paramount importance (either economically or emotionally) to a state, then adopting the CFP becomes an insuperable barrier to membership - c/f Norway and Iceland. UKGov, both in joining the EC and leaving the EU, demonstrated that it didn't give a damn about the fishing industry - simply using the richest and most voluble - the small number of deep sea trawler interests - as stimuli to press the buttons of such as Robert. In reality, French, Spanish, Belgian and Dutch boats already had extensive historic fishing rights in English waters. The relatively small inshore fishing fleet in the likes of Cornwall, and the extensive Scottish inshore fleet were wholly ignored both then and now. A government that actually cared about sustainable fishing would have negotiated increased protection for inshore waters, while recognising that the continental shelf was a single ecosystem that required joint management. Sadly, the opportunity was not only rejected, government were so disinterested that they didn't even realise the possibility existed.T Thanks Oldnat for your exceedingly factual response to my rather tongue in cheek post last night. I thought my inclusion of Aston Villa might have provided a clue that my comment was only half serious but a least @crofty spotted it as a bit of banter. However your reply did remind me of an incident some years ago when I worked for a German owned U.K. based pharmaceutical wholesaler. It was when England beat Germany 1-5 and you can imagine the office banter the following morning. One of my team (the office comedian) made a humorous quip to the German Group FD about the result (nothing to do with the war, I hasten to add) but instead of seeing the joke like everyone else, we were treated to a serious, 5 minute analysis of why the German team had been so badly humiliated. It seems Germans and Scotsmen are cut from the same cloth. Little surprise you are so keen to rejoin.😉 - What cloth would that be? A level headed pragmatism and lack of superficiality perhaps and a culture where competence and seriousness are valued, where the most important thing isn't 'having a laugh' or (God help me I despise this word) 'banter'.. |
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Post by bantams on Dec 21, 2021 10:24:34 GMT
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Post by steamdrivenandy on Dec 21, 2021 10:25:55 GMT
barbara and others I think the pictures of Boris and co enjoying after hours chillax / wind down are only likely to offend those already offended. Whilst I'm sure drinking and inevitable indiscretions in and around working hours is now frowned upon, there is no doubt that many, many decisions about corporate life are still made over drinks. Probably more in fact with the growth of corporate hospitality events. Those with commitments outside working hours are possibly even more excluded from those! I don’t think the issue is that they are have a relaxed drink after work, it’s that they had explicitly disallowed the rest of the country from doing the same at this time. Absolutely CFZ. In all this banter and analysis of working/drinking habits it's easy to forget that the reason it's an issue is exactly that. |
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Post by barbara on Dec 21, 2021 10:26:21 GMT
barbara and others I think the pictures of Boris and co enjoying after hours chillax / wind down are only likely to offend those already offended. Whilst I'm sure drinking and inevitable indiscretions in and around working hours is now frowned upon, there is no doubt that many, many decisions about corporate life are still made over drinks. Probably more in fact with the growth of corporate hospitality events. Those with commitments outside working hours are possibly even more excluded from those! I don’t think the issue is that they are have a relaxed drink after work, it’s that they had explicitly disallowed the rest of the country from doing the same at this time. Well actually that's one of the issues and of course that one is proved. But I am also interested in the other issue which is whether there is an afterwork drinks culture in Downing Street and whether that is reflected in the lack of women present in the picture. Is that because the other women have gone home and not stayed for the drinks or is it that Downing Street is predominated by men, and what does that say about the culture and how welcoming it is to women. Lots of interesting issues and consideration of one doesn't rule out consideration of the other. |
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Post by crossbat11 on Dec 21, 2021 10:27:41 GMT
A note to the site moderator, Mark. If posters continue to take the name of my beloved Aston Villa in vain I will have little choice other than to request that you grant me dispensation to use, temporarily of course, football terrace language as a suitable riposte to those who continue to offend.
For example, if they're not careful, they may well get their fuc......... (Mark: steady on Crossbat 11, I had to stop you there.)
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Post by steamdrivenandy on Dec 21, 2021 10:32:43 GMT
By the way, nobody should disrespect a fellow poster’s footy team. (Especially if it’s Newcastle.) They lost 3-2 away to Marine yesterday and are playing Market Drayton Town away next Monday  |
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Post by steamdrivenandy on Dec 21, 2021 10:36:43 GMT
By the way, nobody should disrespect a fellow poster’s footy team. (Especially if it’s Newcastle.) They lost 3-2 away to Marine yesterday and are playing Market Drayton Town away next Monday That's Newcastle Town BTW, presumably that would be Newcastle Toon in the north east. |
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Post by moosepoll on Dec 21, 2021 10:37:07 GMT
I agree with Prof Chalmers It's not such a facetious point - a German court recently ruled that when working from home an injury sustained walking to one's desk (eg from one's bedroom) constitutes a workplace accident. And more directly to what we're talking about here, workers in England at least have long been answerable to employer HR procedures for what is done and said at work Christmas parties, regardless of whether they are on work property or even if the party is paid for by the employer. More generally, my anecdotal impression is that drinking within the workplace at the end of the day/week seems not particularly unusual if you work in a central London office environment, and almost unheard of elsewhere. Which makes a lot of sense as virtually no-one drives to work in the former, and the great majority of people do in most other places. |
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