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Post by chrisaberavon on Dec 18, 2021 16:29:48 GMT
GRAHAM
Many thanks!
Just double checked; Lab dropped 9%, as always you are bang on the money.
You will also remember Bermondsey, quoted in the Times today; David Steel's Liberals, with Simon Hughes as candidate ran a controversial campaign v Peter Tatchel1, and probably if Darlington had gone the same way, Michael Foot may bave stepped down
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Post by alec on Dec 18, 2021 16:32:16 GMT
steve - seven dead people is bad, ok? It's going to get worse. Does it warrant a total national shutdown? Probably not, although there is no question whatsoever that we can keep more people alive if we all take measures to reduce transmission. This is not hysteria - it's plain old common sense. There is an issue around the balance point between disrupting activity and saving lives, but lots and lots of people are dying every day from this disease, the NHS is being crippled, which will kill more people from secondary effects well into 2022 and 2023, and I think we should stop posting claims of hysteria or whatever. Personally, I think you should worry as much about Delta as Omicron right now. Hospital admissions are up to 900 again, the average increasing 8% on the week. That's mainly delta. We're not in a good place at all with covid right now, and it's going to rapidly get worse. Those seven dead people were all loved by someone, and sometimes I think you tend to forget that.
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Post by Mark on Dec 18, 2021 17:33:13 GMT
@ Crossbat11 I did a quick check on Mrs Fangle-Farrer's village as it sounded familiar, but the village that I'd remembered was in fact called Wyre Piddle. It's in the mid Worcestershire constituency, which has a fine collection of England's silliest-named places: Fladbury, Oddingley, Throckmorton, Flyford Flavell, Pinvin, Upton Snodsbury, White Ladies Aston, as well as the aforementioned Wyre Piddle and nearby North Pidddle. These are all real places... Needless to say, it has a huge majority for the Silly Party :-) en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mid_Worcestershire_(UK_Parliament_constituency)I'm sure there is a Half Man Half Biscuit song in there somewhere... |
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Post by statgeek on Dec 18, 2021 17:35:30 GMT
And if you've lost the Express... They have been consistent in criticising him et al for not being Brexity enough. |
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Danny
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Post by Danny on Dec 18, 2021 17:48:34 GMT
the NHS is being crippled, yeah right. 10,000 people in hospital for no reason except there is nowhere to discharge them to. 6,000 who have covid, perhaps a quarter of whom are not ill with covid (see covid thread).
The NHS is being crippled by spending cuts, not covid.
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Post by guymonde on Dec 18, 2021 18:38:33 GMT
the NHS is being crippled, yeah right. 10,000 people in hospital for no reason except there is nowhere to discharge them to. 6,000 who have covid, perhaps a quarter of whom are not ill with covid (see covid thread).
The NHS is being crippled by spending cuts, not covid.
No, the NHS is being crippled by COVID, having been rendered into fragile health by starvation of funds over a long period |
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Post by turk on Dec 18, 2021 18:38:45 GMT
Alec
No doubt if the U.K. forced its citizens to stay indoors the rate of Covid transactions would indeed fall along with the U.K. economy. I wonder how long the nervous nellies of the world are going to keep on using the same excuses for shutting down economies, effecting peoples mental health and stopping them seeking medical treatment for diseases that are much more likely to kill them.
Maybe people need to wake up to the fact that people die from diseases many of which are perfectly avoidable if they followed healthy life styles ,to my recollection I’ve never heard people on hear advocate government interference in what people do with there bodies and yet heart disease and cancers kill nearly a thousand people a day in the U.K. many of those deaths were perfectly preventable.
Or perhaps we could follow your argument re the prevention of movement save lives and ban cars after all traffic accidents cause 1460 yearly deaths and 115,000 injuries a year or maybe ban cows they managed to kill about 20 people a year. All the people I mentioned were loved by somebody but nobody ever considered wreaking a countries economy to save them. Covid cases take up about 6% of hospital beds by far the largest amount are taken up by what we would consider normal disease and many of those beds would be empty if people followed a more healthy life style.
The amount of money spent on Covid is staggering and the money spent on the right equipment and vaccines is fully justified ,however since vaccines the effect of continued lockdowns on the world economies and peoples health is and continues to be a avoidable disaster.
This may come as a surprise to some but the NHS was designed to treat disease something it does rather well it was also designed to prevent serious disease ,again it has made tremendous strides to that effect particularly in the last 30yrs . Covid must be allowed to take its place in the long list of diseases that have a outside chance of killing you without continual stop start of not only the economy but peoples lives.
Fortunately for the U.K. the NHS offers that protection in the form of vaccination . And citizens know that following simple steps like washing hands ,face masks and being careful in crowded spaces is about all you can expect people to do . Of course no government can cater for the terminally stupid like antivaxxers but they are little different to people who live on burgers and wonder why they have a heart attack or a person who smokes and gets lung cancer both go on to clutter up hospital beds in far greater numbers than those with Covid will.
Incidentally I’m not suggesting all heart disease or cancer is caused by lifestyle choices far from it but I live in the US and I have never seen so many grossly overweight people from children upwards and even in the U.K. 63% of people are overweight.
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Post by alec on Dec 18, 2021 18:42:58 GMT
Anyone who thinks that Brexit involves maintaining (or improving) environmental and safety standards can just go away and admit they've been conned. This is well worth ready - www.twitter.com/pmdfoster/status/1471540991047999489 The UK government has decided to change the way it treats substances of very high concern under the REACH UK approach, but as Peter Foster points out, it's strange that this act of divergence was not trumpeted at all by the government. It involves voluntary regulation by industry (haven't we seen where that ends before) and the government is dropping the precautionatu approach, prefering to deal with the most dangerous substances if evidence of harm emerges. You've been had, on so many fronts. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 18, 2021 18:56:29 GMT
"This may come as a surprise to some but the NHS was designed to treat disease something it does rather well it was also designed to prevent serious disease ,again it has made tremendous strides to that effect particularly in the last 30yrs . Covid must be allowed to take its place in the long list of diseases that have a outside chance of killing you without continual stop start of not only the economy but peoples lives." Yes but the NHS is already operating at capacity and the experts are saying that Omicron will likely take it over the edge - resulting in additional excess early deaths from non-covid causes. An immediate circuit-breaker would spread the load and reduce this risk. Boris has to make a huge decision this weekend - act decisively immediately, however unpopular with his loony right Tory MPs, or do nothing and gamble that the experts are wrong. |
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Post by hireton on Dec 18, 2021 18:58:03 GMT
Though it wasn't my main concern anyway, I don't know of any way my own economic situation has changed because of Brexit. I don't know if this reason is covered by any of the categories outlined above, but the thing that finally made me implacably opposed to the EU, as opposed to mildly resentful, was when they temporarily took over the government of Italy and Greece. If they did it to them they could do it to us, and that was a bridge too far for me. The EU never took over the government of Italy or Greece. |
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Post by alec on Dec 18, 2021 19:13:45 GMT
turk - "No doubt if the U.K. forced its citizens to stay indoors the rate of Covid transactions would indeed fall along with the U.K. economy. I wonder how long the nervous nellies of the world are going to keep on using the same excuses for shutting down economies, effecting peoples mental health and stopping them seeking medical treatment for diseases that are much more likely to kill them." What I actually said was "Does it warrant a total national shutdown? Probably not, although there is no question whatsoever that we can keep more people alive if we all take measures to reduce transmission." Ho hum.
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Post by steamdrivenandy on Dec 18, 2021 19:32:15 GMT
Though it wasn't my main concern anyway, I don't know of any way my own economic situation has changed because of Brexit. I don't know if this reason is covered by any of the categories outlined above, but the thing that finally made me implacably opposed to the EU, as opposed to mildly resentful, was when they temporarily took over the government of Italy and Greece. If they did it to them they could do it to us, and that was a bridge too far for me. The EU never took over the government of Italy or Greece. I did a double take on that one too HT. Either I missed something or it didn't happen. IIRC in order to save the value of the Euro the two governments had to do what their creditors required. Which is exactly what the UK would have to do now if it was unable to fund its debt. In or out of the EU or Euro makes no difference to the fundamental of borrowing money. Of course, when in the Euro you have a number of other countries with a vested interest in the currency's stability. With Sterling we are on our own and if someone wanted to bust us we have no other countries that need to help. |
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Post by hireton on Dec 18, 2021 19:36:40 GMT
Lord Frost resigns from the Cabinet citing disagreements over the political direction of the Cabinet.
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Post by hireton on Dec 18, 2021 19:38:51 GMT
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Post by mercian on Dec 18, 2021 19:40:16 GMT
yeah right. 10,000 people in hospital for no reason except there is nowhere to discharge them to. 6,000 who have covid, perhaps a quarter of whom are not ill with covid (see covid thread).
The NHS is being crippled by spending cuts, not covid.
No, the NHS is being crippled by COVID, having been rendered into fragile health by starvation of funds over a long period |
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oldnat
Member
Extremist - Undermining the UK state and its institutions
Posts: 6,131
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Post by oldnat on Dec 18, 2021 19:44:50 GMT
Turk
" I live in the US and I have never seen so many grossly overweight people from children upwards"
Indeed, but part of that is a direct consequence of US government subsidies to the agricultural industry to produce high fructose corn syrup, which is then added to very many food products as an addictive ingredient which increases consumption (and thus profit).
When governments actively take measures which encourage ill health, it ill behoves anyone to argue that governments should not take actions to limit the food industry's drive to maximise profit instead of health.
Cheap corn syrup isn't the only driver of obesity, of course, but it is a significant contributor to the problem.
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Post by steamdrivenandy on Dec 18, 2021 19:47:08 GMT
Lord Frost resigns from the Cabinet citing disagreements over the political direction of the Cabinet. I didn't see that one coming. Do you think Johnson's taken the smacking to heart and is going for a closer relationship with the EU? That'll mean facing off his loony right and the Tories back where they started. |
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Post by chrisaberavon on Dec 18, 2021 19:48:33 GMT
Pippa crerar has tweeted that Bexit Chief, Lord Frost has resigned from the Cabinet 'over the political direction of the Government.
Big impact, I think, if true.
Polling numbers will be interesting to observe.
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oldnat
Member
Extremist - Undermining the UK state and its institutions
Posts: 6,131
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Post by oldnat on Dec 18, 2021 19:48:51 GMT
Lord Frost resigns from the Cabinet citing disagreements over the political direction of the Cabinet. UKGov has a political direction? Who knew? |
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steve
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Post by steve on Dec 18, 2021 19:50:36 GMT
South Africa case rate 2000 lower than this time last week.
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Post by steamdrivenandy on Dec 18, 2021 19:53:03 GMT
Nothing about Frost on the BBC as yet.
La Kuensberg losing her grip?
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Post by jimjam on Dec 18, 2021 19:56:36 GMT
SDA, her contacts were Dom and his team.
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Post by crossbat11 on Dec 18, 2021 20:03:20 GMT
Nothing about Frost on the BBC as yet. La Kuensberg losing her grip? You can only lose what you once had. |
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Post by John Chanin on Dec 18, 2021 20:09:20 GMT
Pippa crerar has tweeted that Bexit Chief, Lord Frost has resigned from the Cabinet 'over the political direction of the Government. Big impact, I think, if true. Polling numbers will be interesting to observe. Likely will give Johnson a boost. Frost was poison - ideological, confrontational, and incompetent. |
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Post by hireton on Dec 18, 2021 20:12:33 GMT
Still at least Frost gets to trouser £300 a day for turning up to the HoL.
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Post by mercian on Dec 18, 2021 20:14:03 GMT
Though it wasn't my main concern anyway, I don't know of any way my own economic situation has changed because of Brexit. I don't know if this reason is covered by any of the categories outlined above, but the thing that finally made me implacably opposed to the EU, as opposed to mildly resentful, was when they temporarily took over the government of Italy and Greece. If they did it to them they could do it to us, and that was a bridge too far for me. The EU never took over the government of Italy or Greece. |
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oldnat
Member
Extremist - Undermining the UK state and its institutions
Posts: 6,131
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Post by oldnat on Dec 18, 2021 20:16:58 GMT
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domjg
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Post by domjg on Dec 18, 2021 20:21:09 GMT
V glad to hear of departure from public life if true of threat to Irish peace and central casting English thug Frost. Hopefully this will mean a modicum of less dogmatic more pragmatic dealing with EU.
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Post by hireton on Dec 18, 2021 20:23:49 GMT
Lord Frost resigns from the Cabinet citing disagreements over the political direction of the Cabinet. I didn't see that one coming. Do you think Johnson's taken the smacking to heart and is going for a closer relationship with the EU? That'll mean facing off his loony right and the Tories back where they started. And James ESky reporting that the areas of disagreement are high taxes, net zero and covid restrictions. In other words, this is the new fundamental split in the Tory party which will run and run. |
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Post by steamdrivenandy on Dec 18, 2021 20:32:38 GMT
I didn't see that one coming. Do you think Johnson's taken the smacking to heart and is going for a closer relationship with the EU? That'll mean facing off his loony right and the Tories back where they started. And James E Sky reporting that the areas of disagreement are high taxes, net zero and covid restrictions. In other words, this is the new fundamental split in the Tory party which will run and run. Sounds like Frost was getting above himself, given the things that it's said he resigned over have nothing to do with his ministerial responsibilities. Where did he come from anyway if he's not long been made a Lord and hasn't been an MP. Was he dragged off Putney High Street or something? |
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