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Post by leftieliberal on Nov 29, 2024 16:21:48 GMT
Someone I think it was jib said the results of the congressional elections in California were what pushed the republicans over the line. Well they have just about finished counting now. The final result a gain of three seats for the democrats!. The House elections have, despite their issues, been far more representative of votes cast than the gerrymandered Presidential electoral college or the totally unrepresentative Senate elections. You may, quite reasonably, not like the outcome but that doesn't make it gerrymandered. |
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Post by alec on Nov 29, 2024 16:31:49 GMT
Syria; events moving very fast it appears. It appears that the Assad regime has collapsed in Aleppo, the countries second largest city, with anti government forces taking it without resistance. It is starting to look like a full on military collapse is underway, but as ever, details will need to be confirmed. I've seen some reports (that I can't vouch for with any certainty) that claim Assad is in Moscow, which would be interesting if true.
Whatever, this appears to be a significant blow to not just Assad, but to Moscow and Tehran as well.
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steve
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Post by steve on Nov 29, 2024 16:34:03 GMT
Whether the intent of slave owning landlords in the eighteenth century has much relevance now is debatable.
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Post by alec on Nov 29, 2024 16:37:59 GMT
News coming in also of the possible sinking of a large Russian amphibious ship in a Black Sea port to the east of Ukraine, inside Russia proper.
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Post by c-a-r-f-r-e-w on Nov 29, 2024 16:47:08 GMT
It might not be anecdotal - I posted the Telegraph graphic the other day showing how EV sales were falling behind expectations. How much it’s to do unrealistic expectations, with Musk, or with prices not falling enough, not enough chargers or indeed other things, I’m not sure about EV anecdote heard today. Cant vouch for its veracity. EV driver breaks down & needs wheel changing. Cannot use regular breakdown service because of non0standard wheel/tyre and weight of car. "specialist" assistance cost £275 Well, there is a suggestion that EVs get more tyre issues due to weight www.rac.co.uk/drive/news/electric-vehicles-news/mot-statistics-reveal-ev-tyres-are-40-more-likely-to-fail-compared-petrol/and EVs might need non-standard tyres, e.g. from Auto Express: “ Electric cars have different tyre requirements compared to their petrol or diesel powered equivalents. For example, EVs are much heavier than their internal combustion engine (ICE) powered counterparts – so regular rubber which is suitable for a petrol car might not be right for an EV.”and various other sources say you need different tires for the higher torque as well. I would look into it more to check but it would probably get branded another “urban myth” on dubious grounds… |
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domjg
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Post by domjg on Nov 29, 2024 16:55:31 GMT
Sometimes I find it really hard not to post: "turk is a massive ****" Oh look I just kind of did it anyway.
Considering the graft and bungs to mates corruption that cost huge amounts of tax payer money and debased the procedures around procurement to almost third world levels under the recent tory gvt I'll take no moralising from him. No-one doubts she was mugged.
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Post by mark61 on Nov 29, 2024 17:03:27 GMT
mark61 What she said She said it had been a “genuine mistake” and that magistrates gave her the “lowest possible” sentence when she entered the guilty plea in 2014. The lowest possible sentence is an absolute discharge so I rather assumed that's what she meant. I've subsequently seen it as reported as a conditional discharge in reality the normal extent of " conditionality" is a warning not to do it or something similar again or this incident might be taken into account. So still pretty much a nothing burger. Incidentally Faith my wife has an " absolute discharge " from nearly 50 years ago when as a student nurse her friends thought it a bit of a hoot to move her bed into the back of an estate car while she was asleep in it after a few too many babychams the night before. The police found her and it went to court where fortunately everyone saw the funny side of it absolute discharge no points or suspension of her driving licence. My paternal family on the other hand have a proud tradition of being a bunch of tea leaves. My dad was enough of a disappointment to them by never being in prison they could barely tolerate it when I became plod. At risk of being thought a pedant a conditional discharge discharge isn't simply taken into account if you re-offend during the period of the offence, you may be resentenced for the original offence as well as the new matter which is before the Court. I think the problem for Haigh is that although minor this appears to be an offence of dishonesty. Now if that pre-dates your time as an MP or a minister should it be a resigning matter, I suppose it depends on the detail. @leftie, just because you don't raise a defence in an interview under caution it doesn't mean you can't raise it at Court, the caution merely says it may harm your defence if you don't mention something you later rely on should the case go to court, you can still raise a defence it just may carry less weight if you can't give a good reason for not mentioning it when questioned. |
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Post by c-a-r-f-r-e-w on Nov 29, 2024 17:07:16 GMT
Yeah-just watching Farage bragging about his TikTok following. A million + he says. Mostly young people who are moving right , like in Europe & USA. He says I saw Farage recently say that at the moment it’s still difficult for him with mainstream media, but in a decade they won’t matter anymore. Regarding the idea of a move right, there is a change but he’s not fully capturing it. it might be sooner the way things are going. In the States, some media outlets - already down overall - are down over 20% since the election! I would suggest there is a move left economically, and a move socially towards the conservative? Even that doesn’t properly capture it. I need to think about it a bit, while I play with my new headphones… To follow up on this, having thought about it, it’s one of those times it’s necessary to be clear about what left and right means. If you take being more against immigration as right wing etc., the way the media have messed things up for political reasons, it’s harder to make sense of it. If you take left wing as anti-capital, and right wing as pro capital, then it’s clearer. To take the US for example, there is a move to the left economically, as people look to try preserve jobs via immigration controls, tariffs etc., and a concern to try and reduce cost of living. But that’s left-wing economically. Socially are people becoming more conservative? Or at least rejecting greater radicalism? (Farage’s difficulty is that while he might be keen on reducing immigration, in other ways he’s rather more pro-capital. His immigration concerns are less about the economic impact and more about other things) |
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steve
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Post by steve on Nov 29, 2024 17:32:00 GMT
Sometimes it's very difficult to identify if images have been A1 generated in these days of fake news it's important to look out for the sometimes almost imperceptible clues I've circled a few in this image in red which might give cause for concern about it's veracity.  |
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Post by leftieliberal on Nov 29, 2024 17:50:15 GMT
Whether the intent of slave owning landlords in the eighteenth century has much relevance now is debatable. So I assume you are also against Magna Carta on the grounds that the intent of serf-owning landlords (a.k.a. Barons) in the thirteenth century has debatable relevance today.  |
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steve
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Post by steve on Nov 29, 2024 17:55:34 GMT
mark61While you are technically correct it's my experience that in general all that happens is that at most it's tic'd on a further conviction. Admittedly I haven't been in court to view defendants relating to arrests for minor offences for over three decades but back when I was a younglings at West End central this is all I can remember happening at Marlborough street magistrates court.
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Post by laszlo4new on Nov 29, 2024 18:00:50 GMT
Labour put out a graph on FB on illegal immigrants being removed.I am afraid they used the LibDem visualisation technic. So 14% looks like 300%...
They should be ashamed.
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steve
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Post by steve on Nov 29, 2024 18:02:27 GMT
leftieliberal Only three of the clauses in the magna Carta are in force today the freedom of the church , the special privileges of the city of london are two of them basically everything else in it has been superseded by statute law. None of the basic principles are unique to it all exist in more relevant form elsewhere by national and international law. So no not really. Which is hardly surprising in an 800 year old document.
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neilj
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Post by neilj on Nov 29, 2024 18:36:14 GMT
Interesting article on the background to the assisted dying debate and the power of ordinary people Jessica Elgot "My analysis: Kim Leadbeater was the front woman for this bill. But her side won because there was quiet and powerful experiment in participatory democracy being undertaken by MPs. Across the land, hundreds of citizens gathered and told stories and convinced their MPs to vote for change" www.theguardian.com/society/2024/nov/29/the-power-behind-the-vote-for-assisted-dying-ordinary-people |
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steve
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Post by steve on Nov 29, 2024 18:37:18 GMT
Laszlo
Be fair Labour turned the lowest percentage vote ever for a majority government into a " massive mandate "
So they have form.
I haven't seen the graph so can't comment if it's up to the standard of some of our more optimistic productions.
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Post by laszlo4new on Nov 29, 2024 18:49:02 GMT
Laszlo Be fair Labour turned the lowest percentage vote ever for a majority government into a " massive mandate " So they have form. I haven't seen the graph so can't comment if it's up to the standard of some of our more optimistic productions. I attached the picture. In Liverpool LibDems regularly use the technique in leaflets. Attachments:
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Post by jib on Nov 29, 2024 19:18:03 GMT
Someone I think it was jib said the results of the congressional elections in California were what pushed the republicans over the line. Well they have just about finished counting now. The final result a gain of three seats for the democrats!. The House elections have, despite their issues, been far more representative of votes cast than the gerrymandered Presidential electoral college or the totally unrepresentative Senate elections. Still sore after you put too much skin in that game aren't you? I didn't want to see Trump in the White House, but your laughable theatrics prior to the election have backfired on you. I never said the Republican party would "win" in California, just contribute to the overall clean sweep. Go shout at the moon. |
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Post by c-a-r-f-r-e-w on Nov 29, 2024 19:30:10 GMT
Whether the intent of slave owning landlords in the eighteenth century has much relevance now is debatable. So I assume you are also against Magna Carta on the grounds that the intent of serf-owning landlords (a.k.a. Barons) in the thirteenth century has debatable relevance today. things might be heading back that way… #technofeudalism www.youtube.com/watch?v=nx4l89GsvMs |
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Post by turk on Nov 29, 2024 19:45:46 GMT
The assisted dying bill may well have been a free vote, however the majority were Labour MP’s 233 out of the total of 330 of all MP’s who voted for the bill, but it’s Starmers government that will have the job of implementing it. And it will be Streetings job to make sure the doctors and drugs and I presume NHS clinics are available to implement the assisted suicide policy.
I wonder if Streetings opposition to the bill will lead to his resignation at some point, as a matter of conscience.
Or maybe as is almost bound to happen the NHS finds itself involved in legal arguments with relatives protesting about there loved ones decision to die or people wanting to die but not fitting the legal requirements and the law has to be changed to overcome the legal arguments.
Let’s hope the legislation is sufficient to protect the weak the vulnerable and mentally incompetent from harm and a future government doesn’t want to want to amend the legislation to make it more easier for the state to enable people’s suicides. If only I had more trust in politicians.
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colin
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Post by colin on Nov 29, 2024 20:17:11 GMT
The assisted dying bill may well have been a free vote, however the majority were Labour MP’s 233 out of the total of 330 of all MP’s who voted for the bill, but it’s Starmers government that will have the job of implementing it. And it will be Streetings job to make sure the doctors and drugs and I presume NHS clinics are available to implement the assisted suicide policy. I wonder if Streetings opposition to the bill will lead to his resignation at some point, as a matter of conscience. Or maybe as is almost bound to happen the NHS finds itself involved in legal arguments with relatives protesting about there loved ones decision to die or people wanting to die but not fitting the legal requirements and the law has to be changed to overcome the legal arguments. Let’s hope the legislation is sufficient to protect the weak the vulnerable and mentally incompetent from harm and a future government doesn’t want to want to amend the legislation to make it more easier for the state to enable people’s suicides. If only I had more trust in politicians. A lot more debate, examination and Impact Assessments to be gone through over the next two years or so before this becomes law. |
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steve
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Post by steve on Nov 29, 2024 20:19:22 GMT
Laszlo Bloody amateurs Here's a graph  Helps that it was true of course. |
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Post by mark61 on Nov 29, 2024 20:33:13 GMT
The assisted dying bill may well have been a free vote, however the majority were Labour MP’s 233 out of the total of 330 of all MP’s who voted for the bill, but it’s Starmers government that will have the job of implementing it. And it will be Streetings job to make sure the doctors and drugs and I presume NHS clinics are available to implement the assisted suicide policy. I wonder if Streetings opposition to the bill will lead to his resignation at some point, as a matter of conscience. Or maybe as is almost bound to happen the NHS finds itself involved in legal arguments with relatives protesting about there loved ones decision to die or people wanting to die but not fitting the legal requirements and the law has to be changed to overcome the legal arguments. Let’s hope the legislation is sufficient to protect the weak the vulnerable and mentally incompetent from harm and a future government doesn’t want to want to amend the legislation to make it more easier for the state to enable people’s suicides. If only I had more trust in politicians. Lets all hope the proposed bill is robust and unambiguous, and provides safeguards for the Vulnerable. I'm glad it passed, I want the choice if I am ever in that position. Most of us who post here will have lost one or both parents, I have posted previously that both mine had a difficult death and I fear that may be my genetic inheritance too. I watched some of the debate which included reference to the appalling suffering some people went through before death, torture as a description does not do it justice. This isn't an issue to shout across the divide and I was glad to see that overwhelmingly our MP's debated with respect to differing viewpoints. One issue brought up by Opponents of the Bill was that the elderly may be pushed into electing for assisted dying by fear of becoming a nuisance or being a financial burden, hopefully safeguards can deal with this. For my part if I'm in great Pain, if I have no quality of life left, I don't want my Children to see me like that, I don't want them to witness what I saw with my Parents, If it comes to it i want the Opportunity to go out on my own terms. Not many of us get to fall asleep for good, listening to Test Match special under the Apple Tree in the back garden on a beautiful summers day. |
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Post by c-a-r-f-r-e-w on Nov 29, 2024 20:34:28 GMT
I hope they do something about self-checkouts then 👍 Personally, I'm against self-checkouts; I always go to a staffed checkout if possible. I don't see why I should help supermarkets to reduce the number of their staff (and I usually chat to the checkout staff as well). I'm fighting a losing battle here, my regular supermarket has just reduced the number of staffed checkouts from 5 to 4 and increased the number of self-checkouts from 6 to 8. Often, when I shop there is only one staffed checkout operating. Yeah, it’s a grim day when you see they have advanced the self-checkout plague some more. But I have been fighting back Leftie and I’m starting to turn things around! Self-checkouts play an increasingly diminishing role in my life… (A couple miles up the road from where I live, they have those cute little robots that do deliveries. My partner wants to move nearby just so we can use them) |
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Post by leftieliberal on Nov 29, 2024 20:46:09 GMT
Perhaps this explains why so many young people voted for Trump, yes Gen Z must be pretty delusional. (Thanks to Ian Bremmer for the original.)  |
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Post by mark61 on Nov 29, 2024 20:54:03 GMT
Further on assisted dying, Props to Kim Leadbeater, the strain of bringing this Bill to the floor of the house must have been immense.
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Post by mercian on Nov 29, 2024 21:00:57 GMT
So I assume you are also against Magna Carta on the grounds that the intent of serf-owning landlords (a.k.a. Barons) in the thirteenth century has debatable relevance today. things might be heading back that way… #technofeudalism www.youtube.com/watch?v=nx4l89GsvMsInteresting stuff, though I stopped watching it about a third of the way in when I realised I wasn't a cloud-serf. I can see what he's getting at but I'm not sure that I agree with everything. For instance he says that AI manufactures our desires. How so? It might do for some people but they would be the ones easily influenced by earlier technologies such as TV adverts. He also stresses the way that employees of Amazon and others are treated. It's not good, but is it any worse than old-fashioned time-and-motion studies? It's the same old stuff just done more efficiently. I do agree that many workers are effectively serfs but haven't they always been? I used to tell people at work that we were all slaves because instead of being fed and housed directly by our owners we were paid tokens to buy these things ourselves and save them the trouble. ---------------------- I did finish watching it and the chap takes his thesis too far in my opinion. He tries to make the case that the new 'cloud capitalists' or 'cloudalists' such as Bezos and Zuckerberg as he calls them are a completely new phenomenon because they own the means by which companies contact their customers. Of course they are phenomenally successful, but is what they do any different in kind to say the people who got rich in the Gold Rush by selling shovels, or telephone companies owning the means of communication, or innkeepers being the only place that stagecoaches could stop at to rest the horses and stay overnight? He also talks about targeted advertising because they know so much about us and this may influence some people but as the populace becomes more tech-savvy they will do the sort of thing I do - e.g. block all non-essential cookies, have an adblocker running permanently, use VPNs and so on. There is no doubt that society is changing and will continue to change quite rapidly, you've only got to look at the High Streets to see that, but I think he pushes his thesis that capitalists are now vassals of the techno-feudal cloudalists too far. For a start there's a lot of stuff that wouldn't be bought via Amazon etc - railway engines, civil engineering contracts, oil rigs and so on. Basically anything big. He's just talking about the consumer market and my time in business made me realise that there's a huge amount of business-to-business trading that goes on. Unlikely that that will go via Amazon or equivalents. |
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Post by mercian on Nov 29, 2024 21:03:43 GMT
The assisted dying bill may well have been a free vote, however the majority were Labour MP’s 233 out of the total of 330 of all MP’s who voted for the bill, but it’s Starmers government that will have the job of implementing it. And it will be Streetings job to make sure the doctors and drugs and I presume NHS clinics are available to implement the assisted suicide policy. I wonder if Streetings opposition to the bill will lead to his resignation at some point, as a matter of conscience. Or maybe as is almost bound to happen the NHS finds itself involved in legal arguments with relatives protesting about there loved ones decision to die or people wanting to die but not fitting the legal requirements and the law has to be changed to overcome the legal arguments. Let’s hope the legislation is sufficient to protect the weak the vulnerable and mentally incompetent from harm and a future government doesn’t want to want to amend the legislation to make it more easier for the state to enable people’s suicides. If only I had more trust in politicians. Yes I wonder whether a future government might decide that anyone campaigning against them is obviously incurably mentally ill and is therefore suitable to be euthanised? There are a few steps between here and there of course... |
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Post by alec on Nov 29, 2024 22:38:09 GMT
colin - "A lot more debate, examination and Impact Assessments to be gone through over the next two years or so before this becomes law." The debate is settled, but for the details. Thanks to a substantial injection of progressive MPs following the last election, parliament has now started to catch up with the society it represents. It's a sign of how poor our democracy is that it's taken them this long. The legislation is good, by all accounts, but it of course will be examined and any wrinkles ironed out in the next stage of the process. The drafting does seem very solid though, although the scope remains rather limited. What's really good is that Starmer hasn't sat on his backside on this, but according to reports has been instructing key departments to ready themselves for implementation. Unlike the last 14 years, we actually have a government that organises things. I also like the way he is reported to have slapped Wes Streeting for his slightly ludicrous remarks, telling his cabinet to respect the free vote and stop making noises from their departments. Unlike many people, in his previous job Starmer has seen first hand where the current idiotic rules end up, with appalling court cases against partners and family members whose only crime has been to help their loved ones end their interminable pain and suffering. Starmer appears to understand how cruel it is to put not only the dying through that, but their families. Whatever the law, I have absolutely no doubt that had my partner decided to end her life in such circumstances I would have moved (non-existent) heaven and earth to accommodate her wish, and to (non-existent) hell with the consequences. But I know that such circumstances would have caused my partner great anguish, worrying about how I would be treated afterwards. Starmer has seen this and knows how ridiculous the current laws are. This is not so much a day for celebration, given the subject matter of the bill, but it is a sign that we are maturing as a society.
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Post by alec on Nov 29, 2024 22:50:29 GMT
Syria: reports of a second rebel offensive against Assad, this time to the north, with an advance at al-Bab, north east of Aleppo. Aleppo itself now appears to be completely lost to the Assad regime.
More significantly for regional geopolitics, the speed of the collapse seems to have got Russian military bloggers deeply concerned over the Russian ability to maintain the naval base at Tartus, to the south west of Aleppo and due east of Cyprus. This is the Russian navies only repair and supply depot in the entire Mediterranean, and it is of significant importance in Moscow's ability to project power in the Syrian conflict.
It remains to be seen whether Assad can fight back, or simply just hold a new line even, but there is a developing sense of Russian power being tested and found wanting. I don't think this will be the last time we see this dynamic play out, such are the stresses caused by the Ukraine war.
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Post by leftieliberal on Nov 29, 2024 23:23:44 GMT
colin - "A lot more debate, examination and Impact Assessments to be gone through over the next two years or so before this becomes law." The debate is settled, but for the details. Thanks to a substantial injection of progressive MPs following the last election, parliament has now started to catch up with the society it represents. It's a sign of how poor our democracy is that it's taken them this long. The legislation is good, by all accounts, but it of course will be examined and any wrinkles ironed out in the next stage of the process. In countries like The Netherlands, Belgium, and Canada about 3-4% of all deaths are assisted. So, for the UK that would be around 20,000-27,000 per year. That implies a great deal of judges' time. I can only see this being practical if the protections are considerably weakened. Let's say that each High Court judge takes one case per day (excluding weekends). That's an extra 75-100 judges or approximately a doubling of the present number (105). Being cynical, the Treasury might be in favour because killing off the terminally ill early will save the NHS money.  |
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