Dave
Member
... I'm dreaming dreams, I'm scheming schemes, I'm building castles high ..
Posts: 818
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Post by Dave on Apr 20, 2024 6:20:16 GMT
As Scottish matters seem to be under discussion I'll share some thing that I learnt today - apparently there were more Scots fighting for Cumberland than for Bonnie Prince Charlie at Culloden. Indeed, Scots and English on both sides, But Germans were only on the side of YOUR monarchy. Not my king. I wouldn’t have had you down as a royalist.
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neilj
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Posts: 5,902
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Post by neilj on Apr 20, 2024 6:21:08 GMT
It seems some members of the Green Party are unhappy with the SNP ditching it's climate targets Meanwhile Kate Forbes of the SNP has said “nearly all the issues that have lost us support in the last year are found in the Bute House agreement and not in the SNP manifesto...the Greens,had a progressive, ideological agenda which was unpopular in the country at large and were also hitting rural communities with over-regulation and tax hikes' www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cekl2v3124goThe Scottish Greens have called an extraordinary general meeting to discuss the future of the Bute House Agreement after the Scottish government ditched key climate change targets The SNP are kept together by their desire for an independent Scotland, but underneath that, like in most parties, there are ideological fault lines Come the election it will be interesting to see the effects, if any, on vote share
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steve
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Posts: 12,082
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Post by steve on Apr 20, 2024 6:35:51 GMT
Can I play? Here's a muppet wearing socks
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steve
Member
Posts: 12,082
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Post by steve on Apr 20, 2024 6:40:52 GMT
moby I think😜 may have been hinting about his theory again regarding the sudden appearance of a sock puppet on the forum. Oh please let it be so it was so exciting the last time
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Post by lululemonmustdobetter on Apr 20, 2024 6:41:01 GMT
Dunkeld (voted best town in Scotland in the Times recently) You have to be able to bitch as well as stitch though.... I don't think that will be a problem.
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steve
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Posts: 12,082
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Post by steve on Apr 20, 2024 6:43:01 GMT
Dave " jen Indeed, Scots and English on both sides, But Germans were only on the side of YOUR monarchy. Not my king. I wouldn’t have had you down as a royalist." Or that old!
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Danny
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Posts: 9,583
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Post by Danny on Apr 20, 2024 7:20:55 GMT
And to be fair, your tribe, whilst they do disgust me, have yet to be shown to be in general corrupt, unlike the current iteration of the Tories. The Thatcher/ Major government ended in a similar bath of power abuse, in a way which the last period of labour government did not. They were brought down by the US banks selling the world fraudulent securities causing a world recession, not their fault. So you might think there is a pattern to con government. And its not as if its hidden, transfer state assets and natural monopolies to the private sector so as to make money from them at the expense of ordinary citizens. Create a legal framework to facilitate this. Major too had a problem with eurosceptics, but this time they are running the party. Thats another self destruct button for ordinary people, but its already been pressed. However, the people who lied to make it happen are still in charge and dont have any plan except 'more of the same'. Hard to top that with another self destructive trick. Although the likely future will be the conservative party becomes pro EU once again, they became leavers only to get into power and overcome the poisonous legacy from the Thatcher/Major era. To achieve that again they will need to be joiners next time round. Switching now would make things worse, it is something you have to do in opposition (or possibly rump party). The conservative party needs to reconstruct itself with a whole new set of rejoin candidates. Its difficult to see them really doing that in 5 years because there will be resistance.
Brexit was something which was a net plus to their vote share while it lasted. But its done and going badly, so its now a net negative. They have to change that.
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Post by chrisc on Apr 20, 2024 7:44:19 GMT
I am surprised that you of all people are suggesting the UK existed as a state in 1745. Have you forgotten about the Irish? I agree the Jacobites weren’t just Catholics in 1745, but the leadership of that rebellion was and it certainly threw the Protestants and the Highlanders under the proverbial bus. I think historians generally don’t feel that the Jacobite rebellion was close to becoming an existential threat to Great Britain, especially as it was put down at the same time as Great Britain was fighting on many fronts during the war of the Austrian succession. Without the French assisting to a much greater extent it was never likely to succeed. [edit] and it could be argued the French also threw the Scots under the bus by promising aid and never really delivering in requisite force. Then and in many other periods of history]. The state was the United Kingdom of Great Britain (with that King also King of Ireland).
Later it became the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Ireland.
Later still it became the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland.
Edit : What on earth does "it certainly threw the Protestants and the Highlanders under the proverbial bus" mean? Don't you understand the nature of religious conflict in Scotland at the time? A huge part of the Jacobite army came from the Episcopalian areas of the North East. Surely you comprehend that Episcopalians were also Protestant? It simply makes no sense to talk of Protestants being a cohesive group in 18th century Scotland.From the act of union with Scotland act “The Kingdoms United; Ensigns Armorial That the two Kingdoms of England and Scotland shall upon the First day of May which shall be in the year One thousand seven hundred and seven and for ever after be united into one Kingdom by the name of Great Britain And that the Ensigns Armorial of the said United Kingdom be such as Her Majesty shall appoint and the Crosses of St. George and St. Andrew be conjoyned in such manner as Her Majesty shall think fit and used in all Flags Banners Standards and Ensigns both at Sea and Land. ” So I think it a draw on names. Or slight advantage me? This act names the new country clearly as Great Britain, although in the next line admitting it is forming a “United” kingdom. Likewise with the act of union with England act that the Scottish parliament approved. Although I do acknowledge that later in the acts “United Kingdom” gets used as if it were a name. Perhaps to ram home the United bit to the plebs? By the way I love that the English parliament act says the union is “for ever after?” but the Scottish one says “forever after”. However, I completely agree I should have been clearer and used Episcopalians as the term for those who fought an unwinnable war to try and put a Catholic on the throne of Great Britain. Apologies. As a Catholic myself, I have obviously been inculcated at birth with the view that the “opposition” are monolithic when very clearly they aren’t. Old habits die hard…..
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Danny
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Post by Danny on Apr 20, 2024 8:05:01 GMT
From the act of union with Scotland act “The Kingdoms United; Ensigns Armorial That the two Kingdoms of England and Scotland shall upon the First day of May which shall be in the year One thousand seven hundred and seven and for ever after be united into one Kingdom by the name of Great BritainAnd yet when I was a lad 250 years later people spoke about this country as 'England'. I remember being confused when I started getting forms which required you to state your nationality, because when I stopped to think about it, it didnt make sense to say I was English, because that was just part of Britain, but that was the automatic word to use. English was synonynmouse with the entire state, at least in the SE of England where I lived. The Scottish and Welsh independence/devolution debates created a change where they demanded to be recognised as separate states, which then begged the question what was the meaning of the word English, because it was now being contrasted to other once independent states rolled into GB. Its another consequence of the failing English state, which still retains political control over the others, but is being diminished step by step so that even its earliest conquests are in various stages of revolt. Makes you wonder whether England will be stable in the future. And i guess thats what is behind the latest wave of trying to ban kids from access to the internet and social media. Its not just about trying to stop them having sex, its about trying to prevent them being exposed to world culture while still at a formative age. To try to turn them back into extreme patriots. Back into conservatives.
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Danny
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Posts: 9,583
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Post by Danny on Apr 20, 2024 8:07:41 GMT
Whoever my ancestors were is of no relevance to anything whatsoever, surely? Only the biggest determinant in how successful you will be in life?
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Post by EmCat on Apr 20, 2024 8:18:32 GMT
Labour and the left should start paying attention here - www.theguardian.com/politics/2024/apr/19/sunak-to-cite-britains-sicknote-culture-in-bid-to-overhaul-fit-note-systemConservatives never miss a chance to use a crisis, and they never miss a chance to blame ordinary people for government failings. For over a year they have tried blaming parents for the huge rise in sickness related absence from schools, which continues with only very minor improvements since last year. Now they are seeking to blame sick workers for being sick, with the PM proposing 'welfare reforms' as the answer. If anyone on the left doesn't see what that means, they haven't learned anything. Leaving aside that there are valid reasons for the increase in individuals being off sick, and this seems to be more of the "shirkers vs workers" red meat that they have tried in the past, to appease the Daily Mail. For those who have retired, then it sounds to be "tough on those skiving off work" (even though, shock horror, someone who has undergone years of medical training may just be in a better position to judge on medical matters than a Daily Mail headline writer). For those still of working age, then it just comes across as "Don't get sick. Don't even think of getting sick. And if you think you are, then we'll bend over backwards to get you back in work, no matter how detrimental it will be to personally." Who would willingly want to vote for a party proposing a work till you drop philosophy? So, not only is it bad health advice, it is bad politics, as it merely cements the Conservatives as the party for the age 70+, as they have nothing to offer anyone under that age. Edited to add: It also seems to designed to piss off GPs - "we think you are not good enough, so will take responsibilities off you". No doubt the next pay round will suggest a reduction in pay to match the proposed reduction in responsibilities.
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Post by crossbat11 on Apr 20, 2024 8:18:51 GMT
Jeez! this place has jumped the shark tonight! JiB did you mean to post that on here or on another site you like! Jen have you ever thought of posting without shouting? Your style doesn't encourage engagement does it? and if you don't want that why are you posting on here? Tend to agree. Even our brief exchange of infantile Villa v Blues "banter" was an upgrade on some of the weird drivel I've just read this morning. On that basis, and to take the debate into far more edifying territory, I'm interested to know what people think about the reintroduction of the Dukes ball to county cricket yesterday and whether this assisted Jason Holder's improved bowling performance at Kidderminster. The previous two rounds of soporific county games, when the more rapidly softening and less pronounced seam surrounded Kookaburra ball was used, are gladly things of the past. Their only contribution to the sporting scene being them providing a timely reminder that the balance between bat and ball needs to be an even one in order to make cricket a decent spectacle to watch. Please discuss.
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Post by mark61 on Apr 20, 2024 8:55:24 GMT
Jeez! this place has jumped the shark tonight! JiB did you mean to post that on here or on another site you like! Jen have you ever thought of posting without shouting? Your style doesn't encourage engagement does it? and if you don't want that why are you posting on here? Tend to agree. Even our brief exchange of infantile Villa v Blues "banter" was an upgrade on some of the weird drivel I've just read this morning. On that basis, and to take the debate into far more edifying territory, I'm interested to know what people think about the reintroduction of the Dukes ball to county cricket yesterday and whether this assisted Jason Holder's improved bowling performance at Kidderminster. The previous two rounds of soporific county games, when the more rapidly softening and less pronounced seam surrounded Kookaburra ball was used, are gladly things of the past. Their only contribution to the sporting scene being them providing a timely reminder that the balance between bat and ball needs to be an even one in order to make cricket a decent spectacle to watch. Please discuss. The Dukes ball is preferable to the kookaburra in English conditions, but shoving the County Championship into April and September has exaggerated the amount of seam and swing you get from it allowing trundlers to over perform. Sign of the times i'm afraid not likely to see the CC in high summer again!
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Post by crossbat11 on Apr 20, 2024 9:06:31 GMT
It may well be that the forthcoming local council and regional mayor elections are just the tonic that a political discussion forum like this needs. With static opinion polls and an incumbent government dying a slow death, to the point even when attacking them seems like kicking a man when he's down, it's easy for political discussion to descend into the banging of old drums and the pursuit of personal hobby horses and antagonisms. I've sometimes been guilty of such self indulgence myself. When there is little new to discuss then the muse often takes flight.
Colin used to often berate me for my tribalism and obsession with scores, but I'm a self-confessed political party animal who originally came to this site many years ago to keep up with political opinion polling. Mainly voting intention polls too. To see how the parties were faring, particularly near election times. I suspected that's what most of us were about (I'm less sure now) and while some of the discussions we had were nothing very much to do with psephology, I always sensed kindred spirits who were open about their politics and motivations.
Now, to be honest, I'm much less sure about that. Bizarrely, I even sense hostility towards people with strong party affiliations. This I think sometimes leads the forum into arid and academic cul de sacs.
So maybe, and let's hope, the forthcoming elections brings this place to life again. Many new posters too maybe, and plenty of people living and breathing party politics, electioneering and the pure vigour of democracy in action, where the public gets the chance to shape the country it lives in.
Bring it all on.
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Post by crossbat11 on Apr 20, 2024 9:11:03 GMT
Tend to agree. Even our brief exchange of infantile Villa v Blues "banter" was an upgrade on some of the weird drivel I've just read this morning. On that basis, and to take the debate into far more edifying territory, I'm interested to know what people think about the reintroduction of the Dukes ball to county cricket yesterday and whether this assisted Jason Holder's improved bowling performance at Kidderminster. The previous two rounds of soporific county games, when the more rapidly softening and less pronounced seam surrounded Kookaburra ball was used, are gladly things of the past. Their only contribution to the sporting scene being them providing a timely reminder that the balance between bat and ball needs to be an even one in order to make cricket a decent spectacle to watch. Please discuss. The Dukes ball is preferable to the kookaburra in English conditions, but shoving the County Championship into April and September has exaggerated the amount of seam and swing you get from it allowing trundlers to over perform. Sign of the times i'm afraid not likely to see the CC in high summer again! Agree. Playing the four day game mainly in the Spring and Autumn, and dedicating the summer months to the various one day formats, has been a mistake. Albeit an understandable decision from a purely commercial point of view.
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Post by crossbat11 on Apr 20, 2024 9:57:13 GMT
What a strange fellow, Sunak is. I admit to not warming to the man, but I don't loathe and detest him or anything like that. I just don't get him at all.
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Post by graham on Apr 20, 2024 10:01:22 GMT
The Times is suggesting that Downing St is now seriously considering a June/July election.
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Post by johntel on Apr 20, 2024 10:04:31 GMT
Jeez! this place has jumped the shark tonight! JiB did you mean to post that on here or on another site you like! Jen have you ever thought of posting without shouting? Your style doesn't encourage engagement does it? and if you don't want that why are you posting on here? Tend to agree. Even our brief exchange of infantile Villa v Blues "banter" was an upgrade on some of the weird drivel I've just read this morning. On that basis, and to take the debate into far more edifying territory, I'm interested to know what people think about the reintroduction of the Dukes ball to county cricket yesterday and whether this assisted Jason Holder's improved bowling performance at Kidderminster. The previous two rounds of soporific county games, when the more rapidly softening and less pronounced seam surrounded Kookaburra ball was used, are gladly things of the past. Their only contribution to the sporting scene being them providing a timely reminder that the balance between bat and ball needs to be an even one in order to make cricket a decent spectacle to watch. Please discuss. If we want to encourage new posters to the site, particularly from the younger generation, I suggest we pick more important and relevant subjects to discuss - for example Taylor Swift's new offering "The Tortured Poets Department'. Isn't it awful how the poor girl suffers - it must be so hard for a sensitive soul like her to get so much unwanted intrusion, not only from the paparazzi but also her own fans! Her English ex-boyfriend seems to have treated her so badly and wasted so many of her prime years - the cad. Still she seems to be getting by and hopefully the proceeds of her new album will enable her to buy some warm clothes...
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neilj
Member
Posts: 5,902
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Post by neilj on Apr 20, 2024 10:12:06 GMT
The Times is suggesting that Downing St is now seriously considering a June/July election. I seem to remember they were seriously considering a May election... useful to keep the rebels at bay
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c-a-r-f-r-e-w
Member
A step on the way toward the demise of the liberal elite? Or just a blip…
Posts: 5,953
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Post by c-a-r-f-r-e-w on Apr 20, 2024 10:13:46 GMT
Tend to agree. Even our brief exchange of infantile Villa v Blues "banter" was an upgrade on some of the weird drivel I've just read this morning. On that basis, and to take the debate into far more edifying territory, I'm interested to know what people think about the reintroduction of the Dukes ball to county cricket yesterday and whether this assisted Jason Holder's improved bowling performance at Kidderminster. The previous two rounds of soporific county games, when the more rapidly softening and less pronounced seam surrounded Kookaburra ball was used, are gladly things of the past. Their only contribution to the sporting scene being them providing a timely reminder that the balance between bat and ball needs to be an even one in order to make cricket a decent spectacle to watch. Please discuss. If we want to encourage new posters to the site, particularly from the younger generation, I suggest we pick more important and relevant subjects to discuss - for example Taylor Swift's new offering "The Tortured Poets Department'. Isn't it awful how the poor girl suffers - it must be so hard for a sensitive soul like her to get so much unwanted intrusion, not only from the paparazzi but also her own fans! Her English ex-boyfriend seems to have treated her so badly and wasted so many of her prime years - the cad. Still she seems to be getting by and hopefully the proceeds of her new album will enable her to buy some warm clothes... Wonder what lululemonmustdobetter might think about that. (Meanwhile: 28 hours to go…)
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Post by isa on Apr 20, 2024 10:31:48 GMT
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c-a-r-f-r-e-w
Member
A step on the way toward the demise of the liberal elite? Or just a blip…
Posts: 5,953
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Post by c-a-r-f-r-e-w on Apr 20, 2024 10:33:24 GMT
Jeez! this place has jumped the shark tonight! JiB did you mean to post that on here or on another site you like! Jen have you ever thought of posting without shouting? Your style doesn't encourage engagement does it? and if you don't want that why are you posting on here? Tend to agree. Even our brief exchange of infantile Villa v Blues "banter" was an upgrade on some of the weird drivel I've just read this morning. On that basis, and to take the debate into far more edifying territory, I'm interested to know what people think about the reintroduction of the Dukes ball to county cricket yesterday and whether this assisted Jason Holder's improved bowling performance at Kidderminster. The previous two rounds of soporific county games, when the more rapidly softening and less pronounced seam surrounded Kookaburra ball was used, are gladly things of the past. Their only contribution to the sporting scene being them providing a timely reminder that the balance between bat and ball needs to be an even one in order to make cricket a decent spectacle to watch. Please discuss. I do like using the Dukes ball, which is distinctive and lets us use our strength in home conditions. On the other hand, it will be quite good to develop our spinners more, especially for overseas tours. So I propose a slight extension to our approach, whereby we take it in turns to bowl one over with the Dukes ball, and the next over with the kookaburra, before reverting to the Dukes for the following over, et cetera.
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Post by chrisc on Apr 20, 2024 10:36:50 GMT
Jeez! this place has jumped the shark tonight! JiB did you mean to post that on here or on another site you like! Jen have you ever thought of posting without shouting? Your style doesn't encourage engagement does it? and if you don't want that why are you posting on here? Tend to agree. Even our brief exchange of infantile Villa v Blues "banter" was an upgrade on some of the weird drivel I've just read this morning. On that basis, and to take the debate into far more edifying territory, I'm interested to know what people think about the reintroduction of the Dukes ball to county cricket yesterday and whether this assisted Jason Holder's improved bowling performance at Kidderminster. The previous two rounds of soporific county games, when the more rapidly softening and less pronounced seam surrounded Kookaburra ball was used, are gladly things of the past. Their only contribution to the sporting scene being them providing a timely reminder that the balance between bat and ball needs to be an even one in order to make cricket a decent spectacle to watch. Please discuss. I’m from Essex. So Dukes / Kookaburra , it’s all the same to us. We’ll bowl you out. Perhaps a balanced bowling attack is the answer for teams? [edit]. If truth be told part of the trick is to be slightly unfashionable so that your county team is full of players who are good, but not too good. Not aggressive enough to be on the T20 circuit and not quite good enough for the test teams. So you get full value all season round.
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pjw1961
Member
Government, even in its best state, is but a necessary evil; in its worst state, an intolerable one.
Posts: 8,313
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Post by pjw1961 on Apr 20, 2024 10:40:52 GMT
The Times is suggesting that Downing St is now seriously considering a June/July election. I suggest that piece was written by that well know journalist Phil Space.
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Post by graham on Apr 20, 2024 10:45:34 GMT
The Times is suggesting that Downing St is now seriously considering a June/July election. I suggest that piece was written by that well know journalist Phil Space. Maybe so. Apparently Sunak is now persuaded that a further cut in NI rates will not shift the dial.
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pjw1961
Member
Government, even in its best state, is but a necessary evil; in its worst state, an intolerable one.
Posts: 8,313
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Post by pjw1961 on Apr 20, 2024 10:52:21 GMT
Tend to agree. Even our brief exchange of infantile Villa v Blues "banter" was an upgrade on some of the weird drivel I've just read this morning. On that basis, and to take the debate into far more edifying territory, I'm interested to know what people think about the reintroduction of the Dukes ball to county cricket yesterday and whether this assisted Jason Holder's improved bowling performance at Kidderminster. The previous two rounds of soporific county games, when the more rapidly softening and less pronounced seam surrounded Kookaburra ball was used, are gladly things of the past. Their only contribution to the sporting scene being them providing a timely reminder that the balance between bat and ball needs to be an even one in order to make cricket a decent spectacle to watch. Please discuss. Bring back uncovered pitches . No need to despair batty, we have a couple of cracking local government by-elections for you this week - one the first examination of SNP popularity post the news of Murrell's arrest, the other a test of what is happening with previously Labour Muslim voter in light of Starmer's approach to Israel and Gaza.
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neilj
Member
Posts: 5,902
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Post by neilj on Apr 20, 2024 11:12:34 GMT
Cheers for posting, another huge swing in the offing in what was previously a very, very safe Mayoralty If the tories do manage to hold on I am sure they will try and make the most of it. But in reality it would still be a disastrous result, just not quite as disastrous as it could have been Ben Houchen, Conservative 47% (-26) Chris McEwan, Labour 47% (+20) Simon Thorley, Liberal Democrat 6% (New)
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Post by leftieliberal on Apr 20, 2024 11:12:40 GMT
Of course it wasn't cheating. Obviously Germans would fight to put a German on the British throne rather than anybody British. And naturally I find it hilarious that all British monarchists still love to doff their cap to their German conquerors. And of course you are right, most Scots would rather see themselves aligned with prosperous democratic European nations. Where is Westminster going to go? The Nordic route? Or more the Orban way? The Jacobite rebellion(s) was as much (or more) a Catholic / Protestant thing than an English/Scots one. An attempt to put a catholic back on the British throne and restore the absolute monarchy. Who needs that Parliament thing anyway? James and his son, Bonnie Prince Charlie, seem strange heros for an anti-fascist? . By the way I don’t think any “Germans”fought at Culloden. In fact Bonnie Prince Charlie got so far as the British army was distracted fighting in the war of the Austrian succession (ironically fighting with Hanoverian Protestants to defend the rights of a Catholic woman to become the first female Holy Roman Emperor - the formidable Maria Theresa). But of course Maria was anti French so that trumped her Catholicism….. I have thought for quite a time now that James VII & II got a bad rap from historians. There was an interesting discovery by historian Scott Sowerby first reported by the Harvard Gazette in 2003 which I came across a decade later in Church Times. In 1687, the year before he was deposed, he gave a speech at Chester, recorded in the diary of Sir Willoughby Aston, in which he called for the repeal of the Test Acts and penal laws under which not only Roman Catholics but also Protestant dissenters, Jews and Quakers were excluded from civil and military office. Seen in this light he was more than a century ahead of his time in his call for religious toleration and his view that religious liberty was a fundamental human right. On the other side were the Puritan faction in the Church of England (and their Scottish brothers who called themselves Episcopalians), and the Presbyterian Church of Scotland. That speech puts James very close in his views to John Locke, his contemporary, whose "A letter concerning toleration" was published in 1689.
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Post by alec on Apr 20, 2024 11:51:19 GMT
EmCat - I'd agree. The two biggest reasons for the explosion in sickness related absence is the direct effects of covid and the terrible state of the NHS (which is also exacerbated by the former). Both of these are, to a large degree, the responsibility of government. But it's easier for Sunak to pretend that somehow we magically became a nation of shirkers on or about March 2020. This is the government talking 'wash your hands' messaging to heart. It doesn't work for covid, and nor should it work for Conservatives shirking their responsibilities either.
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Post by thylacine on Apr 20, 2024 11:54:39 GMT
If we want to encourage new posters to the site, particularly from the younger generation, I suggest we pick more important and relevant subjects to discuss - for example Taylor Swift's new offering "The Tortured Poets Department'. Isn't it awful how the poor girl suffers - it must be so hard for a sensitive soul like her to get so much unwanted intrusion, not only from the paparazzi but also her own fans! Her English ex-boyfriend seems to have treated her so badly and wasted so many of her prime years - the cad. Still she seems to be getting by and hopefully the proceeds of her new album will enable her to buy some warm clothes... Wonder what lululemonmustdobetter might think about that. (Meanwhile: 28 hours to go…) As Taylor might say "Fuck the Patriarchy"
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