steve
Member
Posts: 12,749
|
Post by steve on Oct 16, 2023 11:07:31 GMT
Bonehead has a bone to pick with the case against him.
One of the points he made is an assertion that the events which occurred in 2013 weren't reported for a decade
One slight problem with this they were first reported in 2017!
|
|
|
|
Post by somerjohn on Oct 16, 2023 11:07:45 GMT
SDA: "Turning the other cheek when your adversary has butchered thousands is not something that any state can do"According to the UN (United Nations Office for the Coordination of Humanitarian Affairs), the number of Israelis killed by Palestinians in the 15 years up to end Aug 2023 was 308. The number of Palestinians killed by Israeli action in the same period was 6,407. Could it be that your opinion that "Turning the other cheek when your adversary has butchered thousands is not something that any state can do" applies only when the 'eye for an eye' stuff is done by the side you sympathise with? The remote, hands-off killing of women and children by dropping bombs on them may be more 'civilised' and acceptable to western sensibilities than murdering them face-to-face, but is there really any moral difference? Especially when done in a ratio of more than 20:1? www.ochaopt.org/data/casualties |
|
|
|
Post by crossbat11 on Oct 16, 2023 11:12:14 GMT
Sounds a nice fellow. Just a thought, considering how politics is moving in this country, but do you think he'd be a better fit in Starmer's Labour now anyway? Reeves more his cup of tea on economics? The mystery to me was why Bone was such a Johnson admirer and acolyte. What did old Boney ever see in him, I wonder? Johnson (BJ) was a raving Big State socialist. That was never Boney's bag, was it? All very strange. I'm just a very confused old Hector these days. It's all a Hall of Mirrors. Should I be urging wavering Tory voters on the doorsteps of Tamworth to keep the faith now so some sort of socialist nirvana can be built in the future? |
|
|
|
Post by somerjohn on Oct 16, 2023 11:16:13 GMT
CB11:"The mystery to me was why Bone was such a Johnson admirer and acolyte. "
Willy-waving wankers stick together.
|
|
|
|
Post by wb61 on Oct 16, 2023 11:23:52 GMT
The Ireland v SA, France v NZ, Ireland v NZ and France v SA games were played at a far higher level than anything else we have seen. England and Argentina are in the Semis only due to the draw. But then the semis will be a one off game so who knows? I love the final qualification, pj. At least Alec was certain in predicting England's inevitable comeuppance against South Africa next week! Actually your qualification rather makes my point about the essence of tournament sport, especially at the knock out stages. Every game is a one-off now. Previous games and form an irrelevance. England won their group and progressed. They also won their first one off game. Now definitely one to go, maybe two. They're still at the table, rolling the dice. France, Ireland, Wales, Italy and Scotland aren't. Sob stories about difficult draws and hard luck tales of heroic defeats in epic games are mere sour grapes. There was no heroic defeat as far as Wales v Argentina was concerned. The Welsh team failed to turn up, whether this was because they were convinced they couldn't lose I don't know. The chasing of the up and under by the wings (until Dyer came on) was virtually non-existent, part of that was the woeful box-kicking from Gareth Davies. Josh Adams should have had a yellow card for the shoulder charge on Tomas Cubelli (if he had it would be more likely that the substitute ref would have given Guido Petti a red instead of no penalty at all.) But worst of all was that on the hour Wales seems to have given up. Liam Williams, as always, gave it his all, and Jac Morgan along with Aaron Wainwright can be relatively pleased with their performances but the remainder of the team were as poor as they were in the six nations. To say I was disappointed we would be economical with the truth of "heroic" proportions. By the way Batty, you were right and I was wrong! |
|
|
|
Post by steamdrivenandy on Oct 16, 2023 11:24:50 GMT
SDA: "Turning the other cheek when your adversary has butchered thousands is not something that any state can do"According to the UN (United Nations Office for the Coordination of Humanitarian Affairs), the number of Israelis killed by Palestinians in the 15 years up to end Aug 2023 was 308. The number of Palestinians killed by Israeli action in the same period was 6,407. Could it be that your opinion that "Turning the other cheek when your adversary has butchered thousands is not something that any state can do" applies only when the 'eye for an eye' stuff is done by the side you sympathise with? The remote, hands-off killing of women and children by dropping bombs on them may be more 'civilised' and acceptable to western sensibilities than murdering them face-to-face, but is there really any moral difference? Especially when done in a ratio of more than 20:1? www.ochaopt.org/data/casualtiesAs both sides seem to carry out wide ranging misinformation campaigns I'm not sure who to believe. If the ratio is as above then one can realise the shock to the Israeli system having had six or seven times more people killed in just one day or so than in the previous 15 years. Based on the figures quoted one could therefore argue that the Palestinians know what's coming to them. Yet they still carry out actions that they know, from past experience, will result in thousands of fellow Palestinians being killed and maimed. |
|
|
|
Post by crossbat11 on Oct 16, 2023 11:29:42 GMT
|
|
|
|
Post by shevii on Oct 16, 2023 11:34:40 GMT
The Wellingborough news might well have significance for timing of GE.By the time all procedures are exhausted - including appeals - we are unlikely to see a by election before March next year. Would Sunak really want that? A May GE would avoid that. One of the odd things about the last set of Tory leaders is whether they are really that bothered either way- being PM just seems to be something to put on their CV. Cameron, Johnson and Sunak fit that pattern I think. May probably did care about making a difference and Truss certainly did but then she was batshit crazy. Johnson maybe had a bit more fire about him for "change" but mostly that was to do with self publicity. Previous Tory PMs all seemed to have some passion for the job- Major might have been "grey" but it still felt like he wanted to be PM and to do things with the power even if he was a more steady as it goes character. I suspect this will go to close to the bitter end and October next year seems most sensible for the Tories but you sometimes wonder if someone like Sunak is capable of simply wanting it over and move on to more lucrative things. He probably wants to go with some sort of legacy but doesn't seem capable of creating one other than what will probably be his argument that he "steadied" the economy. Johnson pretty much went in disgrace but he'll always have enough supporters to be able to claim a brexit legacy and blame it on the future PMs for going wrong or in the event of future economic success saying he was right. I think you do have to consider personal motivations in the timing of these things as much as the political opportunity. |
|
|
|
Post by somerjohn on Oct 16, 2023 11:41:13 GMT
alec & Danny Thanks for your debunking of the Triggle/BBC covid article. Good to see a measure of agreement between you two. It does make you wonder if conspiracy or cock-up lies behind the BBC giving prominence to this sort of misleading stuff.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Oct 16, 2023 11:44:35 GMT
Never supported the English rugby team since properly introduced to rugby when a student in Wales in the 90s. I was struck then and now by their lack of soul and general 'public schoolness' compared to the passion of the other home nations teams and of course, especially Wales. They never changed the habit of trying to win matches with kicks. I thought the whole point of rugby was kicking and generally maiming your opponents? |
|
|
|
Post by kay9 on Oct 16, 2023 11:47:54 GMT
Colin: "I suppose the Canadian attacker is following The Old Testament , rather than the New ?"Canadian? American. Thank you. But the Canadians are American too. (As are all citizens from Alert (in Nunavut Territory), to Puerto Williams (on Navarino Island in Chile). |
|
Mr Poppy
Member
Teaching assistant and now your elected PM
Posts: 3,774
|
Post by Mr Poppy on Oct 16, 2023 12:06:08 GMT
The Wellingborough news might well have significance for timing of GE.By the time all procedures are exhausted - including appeals - we are unlikely to see a by election before March next year. Would Sunak really want that? A May GE would avoid that. One of the odd things about the last set of Tory leaders is whether they are really that bothered either way- being PM just seems to be something to put on their CV. Cameron, Johnson and Sunak fit that pattern I think. May probably did care about making a difference and Truss certainly did but then she was batshit crazy. Johnson maybe had a bit more fire about him for "change" but mostly that was to do with self publicity. Previous Tory PMs all seemed to have some passion for the job- Major might have been "grey" but it still felt like he wanted to be PM and to do things with the power even if he was a more steady as it goes character. I suspect this will go to close to the bitter end and October next year seems most sensible for the Tories but you sometimes wonder if someone like Sunak is capable of simply wanting it over and move on to more lucrative things. He probably wants to go with some sort of legacy but doesn't seem capable of creating one other than what will probably be his argument that he "steadied" the economy. Johnson pretty much went in disgrace but he'll always have enough supporters to be able to claim a brexit legacy and blame it on the future PMs for going wrong or in the event of future economic success saying he was right. I think you do have to consider personal motivations in the timing of these things as much as the political opportunity. I think it is fair to say that Rishi didn't get into British politics for 'the money' or 'self publicity' given he's incredibly wealthy outside of politics and doesn't crave the limelight. IMO that is a good thing as he has less 'ulterior motives' than the usual crop of self-indulgent politicians that UK/others end up with. I doubt Boris ever truly believed in Brexit but saw it as a 50/50 fast-track shot at becoming CON leader and PM (much better odds than if he'd risen through the cabinet ranks in jobs he was very ill suited for) I agree that Rishi doesn't currently have any notable legacy of his own and probably doesn't need one for what he will likely do post politics (assuming he Br-exits after GE'24). TBC of course but if he returns to California to pursue a career in Venture Capital or similar then UK PM isn't going to be needed on his CV. Despite Murty gatecrashing CON conf then the rest of Sunak's family might quite like getting out of 'post-PM' limelight in California. So the question for the next year is does Rishi WANT a legacy and the outside chance to continue in front-line British politics after GE'24; and will the bunch of anchors ('rats in sack' CON MP factions) allow him to do something meaningful in the next 12mths? I can thing of one significant area he can make a meaningful difference on but no need to go back over all the complex 'process' issues of 'Stop the Boats'. What's your thoughts on Red Tories like Blair and Starmer WRT 'something to put on their CV'? Blair has a fortune in BTL property and still seems to have some (not very well) 'hidden' influence over LAB policy which contrasts with Brown who has visible input to LAB policy but is ignored. Starmer doesn't appear to have any ideology given the amount of pledges he's broken already and just wants to be PM for the self-indulgent reasons (IMO of course). PS Too much ideology is a bad thing (see Corbyn and Truss) but completely bending with the wind on every issue is not great either. 'Goldilocks' = some ideology x some pragmatism. |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Oct 16, 2023 12:15:00 GMT
A - 13,966,454 of us and given the alternative then do you regret your decision, even 'in hindsight'? Boris-CON v Corbyn-LAB (and Starmer's 'de over' ref) then even in hindsight I'd still pick Boris-CON B - valid point. To get elected as leader of LAB then Starmer needed to be one thing (summarise as: Corbyn's friend) but to be elected by gen.pub in a GE then he needs to be a very different person, with very different policies. C - Deliver on his 5 priorities would be a good start. I've expanded on what else he could and should do in the past* but he is held back a bit by the bunch of anchors within CON MP factions. * EG Housing. The right homes in the right places (not greenbelt) Investment: Fiscal rules and BoE mandate tweaks Although I'm not that bothered who does what needs to be done and I'm realistic in what is possible. I can't see CON fixing the NHS in the way it needs to be fixed - maybe Streeting will do that? For immigration then Rishi-CON have a year to sort that and I doubt they can kick the ECHR decision past GE'24. All covered previously and no need for a Groundhog Day I preferred Hunt to BJ. I thought BJ would lose to Corbyn. ! I doubt many voters could tell yoou what Sunaks 5 priorities are. No one is listening to him. If you are roc by inclination but not a Con. Party member , the question is what sort of party would you be voting for if you vote for them ? |
|
Mr Poppy
Member
Teaching assistant and now your elected PM
Posts: 3,774
|
Post by Mr Poppy on Oct 16, 2023 12:17:16 GMT
I'd be in the 9% who are 'fairly interested'. Might some ideas that can be pinched and it gives an idea of what the currently most militant faction of CON MPs want to see, perhaps in order to compromise on other stuff. I doubt it will get much press attention but I do appreciate 'rats in a sack' is not a good look for CON if Trussites are still trying to blame everyone but themselves for the Truss error. I doubt their suggestions will be fully funded and that will mean they can be easily ignored by Hunt who doesn't have the luxury of being in 'opposition' (from within or outwith CON)
?
|
|
|
|
Post by c-a-r-f-r-e-w on Oct 16, 2023 12:18:42 GMT
There is also the possibility of a conflagration in the Middle East resulting in another oil crisis as per the Seventies. (Which is why we should have been securing our energy all along…) Depends who 'we' are. If you happen to be arich businessman, you may consider this a huge opportunity to make yet more money. Con are of course the party of rich businessmen. So shoule 'we' have beens ecuring our energy, or in fact doing as con have done while in power, which was slow down introduction of renewables and energy saving measures? Indeed Danny, not everyone may be disappointed in rising energy prices. In fact you don’t have to be as rich as Bill Gates to have a potential vested interest: “ Average pension holder invests £3096 in fossil fuels”www.pensionsage.com/pa/UK-pension-providers-urged-to-take-immediate-action-on-fossil-fuel-investments.phpAnd with a well-insulated home and solar etc., might even make money from it. Depending on what they do with tariffs… |
|
|
|
Post by Mark on Oct 16, 2023 12:24:09 GMT
|
|
Mr Poppy
Member
Teaching assistant and now your elected PM
Posts: 3,774
|
Post by Mr Poppy on Oct 16, 2023 12:30:19 GMT
I preferred Hunt to BJ. I thought BJ would lose to Corbyn. ! I doubt many voters could tell yoou what Sunaks 5 priorities are. No one is listening to him. If you are roc by inclination but not a Con. Party member , the question is what sort of party would you be voting for if you vote for them ? Hunt v BJ was further back in 2019 and a lot less people voted on that outcome than in GE'19. We obviously don't know what would happened had Hunt become CON leader - possibly a drawn out 2nd ref, possibly a Corbyn led govt? I dunno but glad we never found out. Unless/until Rishi starts hitting his 5 priorities then he won't get a hearing. Repost of polling showing people think he's doing a bad job on delivery: Clear majorities of the public think Rishi Sunak’s government doing a bad job at delivering on key pledgeswww.ipsos.com/en-uk/clear-majorities-public-think-rishi-sunaks-government-doing-bad-job-delivering-key-pledgesI've stated the only reason I'm currently a CON Party member and that I doubt I will be for very long post GE'24. Without getting into FPTP v PR or 'Groundhog Day' discussions then I respect I'll never get to vote for a party/govt that ticks all my boxes (but CON'19 manifesto was pretty close!). It's usually a 'least bad' vote where we each have to rank order and weight our own priorities and pick the least option to tick - or abstain (eg first GE I ever voted in was in 2015) I posted my dream team t'other day and those policies would be: Left of Starmer on economic axis and using Brexit freedoms more extensively whilst being realistic about the state of our finances Braverman actually doing her job rather than using divisive language the whole time Green stuff but without the 'nutter' unfunded stuff Summary: A pragmatic socially conservative, Green Lexiteer  |
|
steve
Member
Posts: 12,749
|
Post by steve on Oct 16, 2023 12:37:46 GMT
Avdiivka: Russia's assault on key Ukrainian city is weakening, say officials
A days-long attempt by Russian forces to storm a strategically important city in eastern Ukraine appears to be waning, Kyiv officials have claimed.
Ukrainian forces repelled 15 Russian attacks from four directions on Avdiivka over the previous 24 hours, the Ukrainian general staff said on Monday.
This figure compares with up to 60 attacks a day in the middle of last week, according to Vitalii Barabash, head of the city administration.
The reduction in attacks suggests the Russian effort to capture Avdiivka has “deflated”, the Associated Press quotes Barabash as having said. These claims are yet to be independently verified.
War criminal Putin has found another novel method of killing Russian conscripts attacks have apparently involved frontal assaults with decades old equipment and has resulted in in excess of 3000 deaths and injuries among combat units.
The " success" of this operation appears to consist of capturing a number of fields.
|
|
Mr Poppy
Member
Teaching assistant and now your elected PM
Posts: 3,774
|
Post by Mr Poppy on Oct 16, 2023 12:42:32 GMT
Evidence for why IMO we'll see CON do quite well in NE Scotland in GE'24
Majority of Scots in favour of Rosebank oil field drilling, poll suggestswww.energyvoice.com/oilandgas/north-sea/539108/majority-of-scots-in-favour-of-rosebank-oil-field-drilling-poll-suggests/* I respect LAB have the same view but IMO that is based on pretty obvious 'flip-flopping' rather than the more ideological 'securonomics' of CON's desire to ensure we get more O&G for 'just transition' from our own polity. With very little difference between CON and LAB, notably compared to GE'19, then I reckon we'll see even higher ABSNP tactical voting in GE'24 than GE'19 and in NE Scotland CON are the best placed ABSNP in most seats. Probably see opposite in the Central Belt (ie lots of CON'19 quite happy to vote Starmer-LAB to kick out SNP MPs). Holyrood'26 is some way off but on current polling then Unionist parties would have a majority but would they work together? |
|
domjg
Member
Posts: 5,149
|
Post by domjg on Oct 16, 2023 12:48:27 GMT
SDA: "Turning the other cheek when your adversary has butchered thousands is not something that any state can do"According to the UN (United Nations Office for the Coordination of Humanitarian Affairs), the number of Israelis killed by Palestinians in the 15 years up to end Aug 2023 was 308. The number of Palestinians killed by Israeli action in the same period was 6,407. Could it be that your opinion that "Turning the other cheek when your adversary has butchered thousands is not something that any state can do" applies only when the 'eye for an eye' stuff is done by the side you sympathise with? The remote, hands-off killing of women and children by dropping bombs on them may be more 'civilised' and acceptable to western sensibilities than murdering them face-to-face, but is there really any moral difference? Especially when done in a ratio of more than 20:1? www.ochaopt.org/data/casualties"is there really any moral difference?" FFS.. |
|
|
|
Post by alec on Oct 16, 2023 12:58:14 GMT
Mark - "Heappey said: “There is safe haven. Israel has been clear that people should move south, below the wadi, and that will put them out of reach of their planned operations."" They must think we're thick as pigshit. Are they really trying to hold the line that the Israeli Defence Force has given an open assurance to Hamas that any personnel, equipment or hostages they move south will not be in the attack zone? I mean, doh!
|
|
domjg
Member
Posts: 5,149
|
Post by domjg on Oct 16, 2023 13:01:46 GMT
SDA: "Turning the other cheek when your adversary has butchered thousands is not something that any state can do"According to the UN (United Nations Office for the Coordination of Humanitarian Affairs), the number of Israelis killed by Palestinians in the 15 years up to end Aug 2023 was 308. The number of Palestinians killed by Israeli action in the same period was 6,407. Could it be that your opinion that "Turning the other cheek when your adversary has butchered thousands is not something that any state can do" applies only when the 'eye for an eye' stuff is done by the side you sympathise with? The remote, hands-off killing of women and children by dropping bombs on them may be more 'civilised' and acceptable to western sensibilities than murdering them face-to-face, but is there really any moral difference? Especially when done in a ratio of more than 20:1? www.ochaopt.org/data/casualtiesThere's a special place in hell for those who harm children. Ukraine was bad enough but the way children seem to be being disproportionately affected and in fact targeted in this conflict is causing me a lot of distress. Deaths and injuries as collateral damage are obviously bad enough but the Hamas actions are beyond anything.. Evil like that calls I'm afraid for a non typical response. It must be seen by the world to be severely punished. At the same time Gazan civilians must be protected and at the moment Egypt could play a key role in this. But of course the Arab world is little interested in the fate of actual Palestinians it just wants to use them in revenge against the world for it's violent inferiority complex. |
|
|
|
Post by shevii on Oct 16, 2023 13:23:43 GMT
I think it is fair to say that Rishi didn't get into British politics for 'the money' or 'self publicity' given he's incredibly wealthy outside of politics and doesn't crave the limelight. IMO that is a good thing as he has less 'ulterior motives' than the usual crop of self-indulgent politicians that UK/others end up with. I doubt Boris ever truly believed in Brexit but saw it as a 50/50 fast-track shot at becoming CON leader and PM (much better odds than if he'd risen through the cabinet ranks in jobs he was very ill suited for) You make a fair point about Sunak. I wouldn't be qualified to work out the psychology on the various PMs we have had, even though I sort of did! He just seems to be lacking any sort of vision or reason for being in politics even though, as you say, he must have one beyond money (it could be kudos- does he not crave the limelight?). Maybe he just isn't a good communicator which is odd because I was quite impressed with him during Covid and not because of policy as I disagreed with a lot of it. I thought he came across well, whereas now he doesn't and certainly isn't appealing to the electorate. Maybe he's just been dragged down by the Tory infighting and a lost cause? |
|
pjw1961
Member
Government, even in its best state, is but a necessary evil; in its worst state, an intolerable one.
Posts: 8,617
|
Post by pjw1961 on Oct 16, 2023 13:37:26 GMT
Sounds a nice fellow. Just a thought, considering how politics is moving in this country, but do you think he'd be a better fit in Starmer's Labour now anyway? Reeves more his cup of tea on economics? The mystery to me was why Bone was such a Johnson admirer and acolyte. What did old Boney ever see in him, I wonder? Johnson (BJ) was a raving Big State socialist. That was never Boney's bag, was it? All very strange. I'm just a very confused old Hector these days. It's all a Hall of Mirrors. Should I be urging wavering Tory voters on the doorsteps of Tamworth to keep the faith now so some sort of socialist nirvana can be built in the future? Put a bet on, batty, it will all become clearer. |
|
|
|
Post by somerjohn on Oct 16, 2023 13:39:17 GMT
domjg: "There's a special place in hell for those who harm children. Ukraine was bad enough but the way children seem to be being disproportionately affected and in fact targeted in this conflict is causing me a lot of distress."
I understand and respect your distress.
I am trying, as far as possible, to be rational and dispassionate in my assessment of the rights and wrongs of the Palestinian/Israeli conflict. That is where I think it's useful to look at the background to what is the latest chapter in a long story, and at the relevant numbers.
But I'm not going to debate the points you make because my aim was simply to give maybe a little pause for thought, not to inflame opinions.
|
|
neilj
Member
Posts: 6,556
Member is Online
|
Post by neilj on Oct 16, 2023 14:24:57 GMT
Delta poll, Labour lead increased by 5 to 20 points
|
|
neilj
Member
Posts: 6,556
Member is Online
|
Post by neilj on Oct 16, 2023 14:28:05 GMT
Also from Delta poll
'The gap in net approval for the two leaders widens to twenty-eight percentage points'
|
|
neilj
Member
Posts: 6,556
Member is Online
|
Post by neilj on Oct 16, 2023 14:29:56 GMT
The gap in economic competence has also widened
|
|
Mr Poppy
Member
Teaching assistant and now your elected PM
Posts: 3,774
|
Post by Mr Poppy on Oct 16, 2023 14:46:38 GMT
I think it is fair to say that Rishi didn't get into British politics for 'the money' or 'self publicity' given he's incredibly wealthy outside of politics and doesn't crave the limelight. IMO that is a good thing as he has less 'ulterior motives' than the usual crop of self-indulgent politicians that UK/others end up with. I doubt Boris ever truly believed in Brexit but saw it as a 50/50 fast-track shot at becoming CON leader and PM (much better odds than if he'd risen through the cabinet ranks in jobs he was very ill suited for) You make a fair point about Sunak. I wouldn't be qualified to work out the psychology on the various PMs we have had, even though I sort of did! He just seems to be lacking any sort of vision or reason for being in politics even though, as you say, he must have one beyond money (it could be kudos- does he not crave the limelight?). Maybe he just isn't a good communicator which is odd because I was quite impressed with him during Covid and not because of policy as I disagreed with a lot of it. I thought he came across well, whereas now he doesn't and certainly isn't appealing to the electorate. Maybe he's just been dragged down by the Tory infighting and a lost cause? Me neither but we can all voice our opinion! He believed in Brexit when it was unpopular to do so and he tries to avoid the global hob-nobbing (waste of time) events like COP or UN summits where 'words are wind'. That suggests some glimmer of ideology and 'below average' desire to be in the limelight compared to most politicians. I expect he thought being PM would be far more challenging than raising capital for tech start-ups or a being a portfolio manager for a wealth management company - but perhaps not for the 'rats in a sack' reason that has made running the country so difficult. He lacks Boris/Blair 'charisma' and IMO his communication skills would likely be suited better to City investors than explaining stuff to we mere plebs or the bunch of anchors that make up CON MP factions. I doubt he sees winning GE'24 as a totally lost cause and fairly sure he appreciates he needs to get on with delivery to have a chance of winning GE'24 (or at least forcing a 'do-over' if CON can retain around 300 seats). Trying to manage the 'rats in the sack' possibly means we'll never see the Real Rishi, as 'pragmatism' beats 'ideology' when you need to win majorities on HoC votes. |
|
Mr Poppy
Member
Teaching assistant and now your elected PM
Posts: 3,774
|
Post by Mr Poppy on Oct 16, 2023 14:52:17 GMT
Stats for Lefties obviously has a bias but they do seem to post some interesting stuff (IMO). A lot of the 'lower ranks' within LAB are clearly miffed with Starmer's pro-Israel view and some are voting with their feet. LAB HQ might see that as 'self-purging' but it might have implications in some LAs and see less 'ground troops' in GE'24 campaign?
|
|
