domjg
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Post by domjg on May 18, 2023 20:16:15 GMT
Jib may or may not be mainly angry at enablement of austerity though if so it's strange that he doesn't seem to express as much ire against the tories. He's a big ol' brexiter and the Libdems are/were the one major party in England and Wales to be unequivocally pro EU and scornful of brexit. That's his main beef with them I suspect and the banging on about austerity is probably just to make his distaste for them appear to be morally driven. If I want anyone to speak on my behalf, rest assured it shan't be you. What the Lib Dems did in 2010 is beyond forgiveness - and for what long term gain? The opportunistic EU flag shagging since then just adds to the distate. Austerity? #itwasyouWell no it wasn't me actually, as I didn't vote for them but I do very much support their stance on brexit which of course is anathema to you. |
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c-a-r-f-r-e-w
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A step on the way toward the demise of the liberal elite? Or just a blip…
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Post by c-a-r-f-r-e-w on May 18, 2023 20:16:44 GMT
Mr Jansen said BT would be a “huge beneficiary” of AI, which he said could save the company hundreds of millions of pounds compared to its old IT systems. He said: “Yes it has its risks, we’ve got to be very careful, but I personally think it’s going to be as big as the internet and as big as mobile phones. This is a massive change. Sounds like the plot of many a science fiction story, where the AI takes over the world. So this one is to be given control of our communications network. You can just imagine the next prime minister screaming why his phones stopped working and his remote security system just locked him up. remember Danny, Genisys British Telecom is Skynet! youtu.be/_Wlsd9mljiU |
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Post by joeboy on May 18, 2023 20:32:53 GMT
Of course. There are some people who really don't care about which state they are citizens of, or what the borders of any state should be. Those who do have a preference for a particular geographic organisation of a state are "nationalists of some sort" - just not the definition that you choose for the term.
You seem far too intelligent a chap not to realise what you are doing by pretending that "socialism" and "nationalism" are mutually exclusive. That your use of that tactic is clearly nonsense is demonstrated by the existence of the SDLP. They are officially a "Nationalist" party, yet are also a social democratic party, recognised as such by the Labour Party. You support both the principal aspects of the SDLP, so trying to claim not to be "some sort of nationalist" is bizarre (or just silly politicking).
You will know that, in 2013, Labour decided to downgrade its participation in the Socialist International to observer status, and to be a founding member of the Progressive Alliance international, along with other social democratic parties. To imply that Labour is a still a "socialist" party, as opposed to a social democratic one is disingenuous (to be polite). There are "socialists" within Labour, as there are in the SNP, SGP, SDLP, PC, GP. There are also ideological "nationalists" (in your definition) in Labour, Tory, LD, SNP, PC (though not, I think in GP or SGP) and it doesn't particularly matter whether their preferred nation/state is Scotland, Wales, England, Ireland, Britain or UK.
Neither of us is the kind of "nationalist" that you want to be the only usage of that label. We both are in the sense of wanting our state to cover a particular geographic area and for that state to be a component unit of the Federal EU we both wish to see existing in future. I might add that both of the parties I support and vote for are strongly enthusiastic for EU membership, while your one - isn't. In reality I'd hesitate to call the SDLP a Nationalist party. They're designated as such for NI purposes as code for a party Catholics vote for. Historically, they arose in a certain time and place and were favoured by Catholics as the party of power sharing and civil rights, and while their professed ultimate aim may have been a United Ireland that cause wasn't really associated with them in NI, for obvious reasons. I think as a result, within what is termed the nationalist community, their support is declining with the majority of their current voters being older or middle class Catholics. The constitutional question has moved on and to a large degree away from the SDLP towards the arguably more socially progressive SF. Interestingly, given the current debate SF have always, where possible, avoided the national/nationalist label. They will always describe themselves as Irish Republicans. For the local elections I suppose it boils down to an SDLP candidate campaigning for a return of Stormont to improve the bus service , a Shinner will say the same, but will add that in a UI we'd have more buses and they'd all be new and shiny😊 |
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Post by befuddledbadger on May 18, 2023 20:38:27 GMT
Yes, it paints a very touching figure of the man colin kindly described as “insufferably smug” (despite not knowing him…) I think that was because he looked pleased about the LD Local Election results - which was, of course, disgracefully remiss of him. It felt particularly sincere and real, given that the interviewer, Zoe Williams, is a lifelong Labour supporter and she was obviously impressed by him which comes out in the article. FM Again, I feel I must come to the beleaguered Colin's defence here. Davey had no business to be appearing on TV screens the day after the local election results, rubbing defeated opponents and their supporters noses in it. I have some sympathy for the way Colin must have been feeling. The last thing you want when feelings are sensitive and the bitter taste of defeat is still fresh, is some berk from the winning side popping up on your TV screen looking very pleased with him or herself. Surely a bit of magnanimity was in order; some consideration for the feelings of those in despair. I thought Davey was insensitive, to be honest, as was Starmer later in the day. |
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Post by graham on May 18, 2023 20:42:36 GMT
Jib may or may not be mainly angry at enablement of austerity though if so it's strange that he doesn't seem to express as much ire against the tories. He's a big ol' brexiter and the Libdems are/were the one major party in England and Wales to be unequivocally pro EU and scornful of brexit. That's his main beef with them I suspect and the banging on about austerity is probably just to make his distaste for them appear to be morally driven. If I want anyone to speak on my behalf, rest assured it shan't be you. What the Lib Dems did in 2010 is beyond forgiveness - and for what long term gain? The opportunistic EU flag shagging since then just adds to the distate. Austerity? #itwasyouPersonally i am no more inclined to forgive LDs for the 2010 Coalition than Von Papen and Hugenburg for entering Coalition in January 1933. |
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oldnat
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Extremist - Undermining the UK state and its institutions
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Post by oldnat on May 18, 2023 20:46:17 GMT
The article says, "The Marubeni trading house intends to sign plans envisioning spending around of £10bn in the UK to boost offshore wind and green projects in Wales and Scotland, No 10 said. A £4bn expansion of UK offshore wind projects off Suffolk and Norfolk by the Sumitomo Corporation was also billed." So what it really means is they are buying up the UK wind generation industry, and will presumably export the profits to Japan?
A clue to the difficulties caused by UK government may be found in a response by the Scotland Office minister, John Lamont, to a question in HoC as to why UKGov still hasn't provided the reassurance required by the energy companies who have 6 "shovel ready" projects in place for pumped hydro energy storage. Lamont described this as "new technology" - a remarkable usage of "new" since that technology has been used in Scotland and Wales for the last 60 years, and in England for the last 40 - not to mention its use for over 100 years in Switzerland!
Naturally, the lamentable Lamont gave no indication as to when UKGov might leisurely come to some form of decision on the matter. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 18, 2023 20:49:10 GMT
befuddledbadgerIs that an actual photo of you or just a generic picture of any old badger going about, well…. badgering people I suppose? Thought your post was disgraceful by the way. FM
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Post by Rafwan on May 18, 2023 20:56:13 GMT
Well done, you Irons …!!!
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pjw1961
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Government, even in its best state, is but a necessary evil; in its worst state, an intolerable one.
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Post by pjw1961 on May 18, 2023 20:56:56 GMT
Calling a party 51.8% of whose members voted for Kate Forbes or Ash Regan in the first round "socialist" would be a stretch. In truth, there are doubtless socialists and non-socialists in both the SNP and Labour. My reason for mentioning that particular philosophy wasn't party political but to point out that non-nationalist traditions exist, and that to think everyone is automatically a nationalist of some sort is not, in reality, a given.
You seem far too intelligent a chap not to realise what you are doing by pretending that "socialism" and "nationalism" are mutually exclusive. That your use of that tactic is clearly nonsense is demonstrated by the existence of the SDLP. They are officially a "Nationalist" party, yet are also a social democratic party, recognised as such by the Labour Party. You support both the principal aspects of the SDLP, so trying to claim not to be "some sort of nationalist" is bizarre (or just silly politicking).
You will know that, in 2013, Labour decided to downgrade its participation in the Socialist International to observer status, and to be a founding member of the Progressive Alliance international, along with other social democratic parties. To imply that Labour is a still a "socialist" party, as opposed to a social democratic one is disingenuous (to be polite). There are "socialists" within Labour, as there are in the SNP, SGP, SDLP, PC, GP. There are also ideological "nationalists" (in your definition) in Labour, Tory, LD, SNP, PC (though not, I think in GP or SGP) and it doesn't particularly matter whether their preferred nation/state is Scotland, Wales, England, Ireland, Britain or UK.
Neither of us is the kind of "nationalist" that you want to be the only usage of that label. We both are in the sense of wanting our state to cover a particular geographic area and for that state to be a component unit of the Federal EU we both wish to see existing in future. I might add that both of the parties I support and vote for are strongly enthusiastic for EU membership, while your one - isn't.I won't respond to all of that, but just to say you won't find anywhere in my recent posts where I said Labour was a socialist party. I don't think it is. It is a broadly social democratic party (in the post 1945 sense of the term), which also contains some socialists (currently feeling somewhat beleaguered). I'm pleased you recognise that above in your third paragraph, as your recent stance has been the Labour is a conservative, right of centre party, initially with the implication that it was indistinguishable from the Conservatives, but since the Tories seem to have gone completely mad, a more subtle recent suggestion that it advocates 'one nation' conservatism. Obviously, I disagree. As and when Labour gets round to publishing a manifesto we can test that proposition in full by comparing it to the government's proposals. As to the nationalism issue, I think we have both set out our views on that at sufficient length recently, so I will let that rest. |
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Post by alec on May 18, 2023 20:59:30 GMT
A big wake up call for press freedom here - rsf.org/en/uk-allocation-costs-banks-v-cadwalladr-sets-chilling-precedent-public-interest-journalismThe case is quite complex, but in essence Aaron Banks sued the journalist, not the publishers, and while the reporting was deemed to be in the public interest, the Appeal Court has found only partially in Bank's favour yet awarded significant costs to be paid by Cadwalladr. In the UK, rich people can silence the press, and this technique of targeting the journalist rather than the publishing platform is going to help drive the UK further and further towards a corrupt political system. |
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pjw1961
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Government, even in its best state, is but a necessary evil; in its worst state, an intolerable one.
Posts: 8,573
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Post by pjw1961 on May 18, 2023 20:59:39 GMT
Yes, it paints a very touching figure of the man colin kindly described as “insufferably smug” (despite not knowing him…) I think that was because he looked pleased about the LD Local Election results - which was, of course, disgracefully remiss of him. It felt particularly sincere and real, given that the interviewer, Zoe Williams, is a lifelong Labour supporter and she was obviously impressed by him which comes out in the article. FM Again, I feel I must come to the beleaguered Colin's defence here. Davey had no business to be appearing on TV screens the day after the local election results, rubbing defeated opponents and their supporters noses in it. I have some sympathy for the way Colin must have been feeling. The last thing you want when feelings are sensitive and the bitter taste of defeat is still fresh, is some berk from the winning side popping up on your TV screen looking very pleased with him or herself. Surely a bit of magnanimity was in order; some consideration for the feelings of those in despair. I thought Davey was insensitive, to be honest, as was Starmer later in the day. You're worrying about Colin - just think how jib felt  |
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oldnat
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Extremist - Undermining the UK state and its institutions
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Post by oldnat on May 18, 2023 21:00:08 GMT
In reality I'd hesitate to call the SDLP a Nationalist party. They're designated as such for NI purposes as code for a party Catholics vote for. Historically, they arose in a certain time and place and were favoured by Catholics as the party of power sharing and civil rights, and while their professed ultimate aim may have been a United Ireland that cause wasn't really associated with them in NI, for obvious reasons. I think as a result, within what is termed the nationalist community, their support is declining with the majority of their current voters being older or middle class Catholics. The constitutional question has moved on and to a large degree away from the SDLP towards the arguably more socially progressive SF. Interestingly, given the current debate SF have always, where possible, avoided the national/nationalist label. They will always describe themselves as Irish Republicans. For the local elections I suppose it boils down to an SDLP candidate campaigning for a return of Stormont to improve the bus service , a Shinner will say the same, but will add that in a UI we'd have more buses and they'd all be new and shiny😊
Labels can be a useful shorthand, when used in context, when deployed as absolute truths, they are but fecking mince.
My post was mainly about the folly of attaching a single definition to a political label, and then foolishly claiming that any group to which that label is applied must share the characteristics attached to that definition.
EDIT: Since pjw1961 has declared his intention no longer to try to insist that his usage of "nationalism" is the only acceptable one, I will have no reason to continue to provide an alternative view. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 18, 2023 21:12:41 GMT
oldnat“ EDIT: Since pjw1961 has declared his intention no longer to try to insist that his usage of "nationalism" is the only acceptable one, I will have no reason to continue to provide an alternative.” Shame really - but I’ll make a note in my diary anyway. FM
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oldnat
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Post by oldnat on May 18, 2023 21:13:15 GMT
Someone mentioned the Scots "Right to Roam" upthread.
Not all landowners are compliant with it.
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c-a-r-f-r-e-w
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A step on the way toward the demise of the liberal elite? Or just a blip…
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Post by c-a-r-f-r-e-w on May 18, 2023 21:13:43 GMT
BT is to cut 55,000 jobs by the end of the decade including replacing around 10,000 workers with artificial intelligence (AI).The telecoms giant will reduce the size of its workforce by 40pc by the end of the 2030 financial year.
Chief executive Philip Jansen said the new BT will be a “leaner business with a brighter future”.
Around 25,000 jobs will be cut through a reduction in engineers as the company’s full-fibre rollout comes to an end and old copper networks are shut down.
Roughly 10,000 roles will be replaced by automation as the company embraces artificial intelligence.
Mr Jansen said BT would be a “huge beneficiary” of AI, which he said could save the company hundreds of millions of pounds compared to its old IT systems.
He said: “Yes it has its risks, we’ve got to be very careful, but I personally think it’s going to be as big as the internet and as big as mobile phones. This is a massive change.”
Telegraph Sounds to me like they're using AI as an excuse to cut costs. I bet if you challenged Jansen to say exactly what the AI is going to do he couldn't tell you. As an update, the Times had a bit more about it. And apparently Jansen did suggest something the AI is going to do. “ Technologies such as digital assistants would allow customers to “interact with us in a more seamless way”” So there you go. Digital Assistants, apparently. |
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oldnat
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Extremist - Undermining the UK state and its institutions
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Post by oldnat on May 18, 2023 21:26:00 GMT
Sounds to me like they're using AI as an excuse to cut costs. I bet if you challenged Jansen to say exactly what the AI is going to do he couldn't tell you. As an update, the Times had a bit more about it. And apparently Jansen did suggest something the AI is going to do. “ Technologies such as digital assistants would allow customers to “interact with us in a more seamless way”” So there you go. Digital Assistants, apparently. The benefit of these DAs is that they will have access to all the array of information held on almost everyone (except Mark). Thus they will be able tell complainers to "Fuck Off" in the accent and style appropriate to that individual. |
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Post by johntel on May 18, 2023 21:29:30 GMT
Sounds to me like they're using AI as an excuse to cut costs. I bet if you challenged Jansen to say exactly what the AI is going to do he couldn't tell you. As an update, the Times had a bit more about it. And apparently Jansen did suggest something the AI is going to do. “ Technologies such as digital assistants would allow customers to “interact with us in a more seamless way”” So there you go. Digital Assistants, apparently. @c-a-r-f-r-e-w I don't think I need any digital assistance thank you very much. Can I have a reduction in my bill instead? |
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Post by mercian on May 18, 2023 21:31:19 GMT
I think that barbara was being ironic. (I’m very impressed that a woman can do that.) I know she was. |
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c-a-r-f-r-e-w
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A step on the way toward the demise of the liberal elite? Or just a blip…
Posts: 6,721
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Post by c-a-r-f-r-e-w on May 18, 2023 21:32:48 GMT
As an update, the Times had a bit more about it. And apparently Jansen did suggest something the AI is going to do. “ Technologies such as digital assistants would allow customers to “interact with us in a more seamless way”” So there you go. Digital Assistants, apparently. @c-a-r-f-r-e-w I don't think I need any digital assistance thank you very much. Can I have a reduction in my bill instead? Well if BT is Skynet it’s possible you might be eligible for quite a big reduction. (Whether you would get it is something else…) |
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oldnat
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Extremist - Undermining the UK state and its institutions
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Post by oldnat on May 18, 2023 21:34:26 GMT
As an update, the Times had a bit more about it. And apparently Jansen did suggest something the AI is going to do. “ Technologies such as digital assistants would allow customers to “interact with us in a more seamless way”” So there you go. Digital Assistants, apparently. @c-a-r-f-r-e-w I don't think I need any digital assistance thank you very much. Can I have a reduction in my bill instead? |
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Post by mercian on May 18, 2023 21:41:30 GMT
No, we don't have them in Manchester, they're very popular in Leeds. In Manchester the vast majority of the terraced houses in the city are like Coronation Street and merely have a small back yard which would originally have housed the outside toilet and a back gate into the ginnel or back alley. Small town and rural terraces often have back gardens but not city ones like Manchester. Whole swathes of them were knocked down in the 60s slum clearance programmes* and replaced with high rise blocks of flats, themselves now being replaced by low rise housing. *My gran's house in Stretford was knocked down in 1969 as part of the slum clearance. It still had an outside toilet, no electricity, gas mantles, a single slop stone sink in the scullery with no hot water, a large cooking range and fire in the back room and a coal cellar full of black beetles (and coal which was put down there by the coalman removing the lid set in the pavement outside every house.) She at the age of 83 was rehoused in a block of old people's studio flats in Ardwick. On the 2nd floor. Back-to-back houses were nearly all knocked down in Birmingham decades ago. the ones in the link are preserved for historic purposes. There are still loads of terrace houses in and around Birmingham. All the ones I know about have long back gardens. I suppose it's because Birmingham has had more enlightened developers and/or councils. Plus, where else would you keep your pig and the nail-making furnace? As an aside my second house (around 1978-83) still had an outside toilet. Luckily an indoor one as well. The outside one came in handy when gardening though. |
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Dave
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... I'm dreaming dreams, I'm scheming schemes, I'm building castles high ..
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Post by Dave on May 18, 2023 21:44:14 GMT
Well done, you Irons …!!! You an iron too? We’ve just booked flights to Prague via Vienna - won’t get tickets for the game I’m sure but who cares. Partaayyyyyy as a mate of mine would put it 🙂⚒ |
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c-a-r-f-r-e-w
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A step on the way toward the demise of the liberal elite? Or just a blip…
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Post by c-a-r-f-r-e-w on May 18, 2023 21:58:29 GMT
@c-a-r-f-r-e-w I don't think I need any digital assistance thank you very much. Can I have a reduction in my bill instead? They might see it as a sales opportunity though, so right after that they might try and sell you your own digital assistant, to watch the polls for you, keep you posted on the latest from Westminster, keep an eye on the sheds etc. |
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Post by mercian on May 18, 2023 22:02:01 GMT
This conversation induced me to look up my grandparents' old house in Emscote (which will mean something to mercian and probably no-one else) on Google Streetview, which my gran lived in until shortly (a few days) before she died. To my surprise, it is still there and looks much the same. I can remember the one gas mantle still in the hall although they had electricity from before I was born. The outside toilet was beyond the scullery and the grating where the coal was tipped into the cellar is still there. There were three bedrooms, but no bathroom (my grandfather used to bath in a tin bath in front of the fire). Unfortunately the overhead view isn't good enough to see how the back garden has changed, although I remember that we had very fine black soil. Afraid even I had never heard of Emscote though I looked it up. The house you describe sounds similar to many of the time. My second house still had gas mantles, though no longer in use. The contrast between then and now is the sort of thing that annoys me when people complain about how terrible life is nowadays. |
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Post by mercian on May 18, 2023 22:07:46 GMT
In many ways I am as annoyed about the coalition as Jib, the difference being that I think the Lib Dems have absorbed the lesson handed out by the electorate in 2015 that most Lib Dem voters are anti-Conservative and won't do it again, coupled with the lesson of Jo Swinson's curious over-confidence in 2019. In short - forgive and forget. Even though I am not supposed to say it, my preferred outcome for the next GE might just be a Labour minority government with Lib Dem support. It would greatly increase the chances of much needed constitutional reform. I'm not so sure about the bit I've highlighted. It might be true that committed party members are anti-Conservative, but when LibDems do well I think they gain from disaffected Tory voters who can't bring themselves to vote Labour. Therefore going too radical might alienate these potential voters. I do agree that constitutional reform (e.g. PR) would be good though. |
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Post by befuddledbadger on May 18, 2023 22:15:33 GMT
befuddledbadgerIs that an actual photo of you or just a generic picture of any old badger going about, well…. badgering people I suppose? Thought your post was disgraceful by the way. FM If you look closely at the photograph, the badger is, in rustic terminology, away with the fairies. It doesn't know what day it is. Put another way, it is befuddled. |
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pjw1961
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Government, even in its best state, is but a necessary evil; in its worst state, an intolerable one.
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Post by pjw1961 on May 18, 2023 22:18:57 GMT
oldnat “ EDIT: Since pjw1961 has declared his intention no longer to try to insist that his usage of "nationalism" is the only acceptable one, I will have no reason to continue to provide an alternative.” Shame really - but I’ll make a note in my diary anyway. FM Apropos of nothing in particular, here is an interesting article about people who feel the need to always have the last word: www.learning-mind.com/having-the-last-word-important-deal/ |
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Post by jib on May 18, 2023 22:21:39 GMT
If I want anyone to speak on my behalf, rest assured it shan't be you. What the Lib Dems did in 2010 is beyond forgiveness - and for what long term gain? The opportunistic EU flag shagging since then just adds to the distate. Austerity? #itwasyouWell no it wasn't me actually, as I didn't vote for them but I do very much support their stance on brexit which of course is anathema to you. I asked Bing what the Lib Dem stance on the EU is, and had the following useful answer; The Lib Dem stance on the EU is that they want to **rejoin the EU single market** and end the Brexit squabbles¹. They have set out a **roadmap** for Britain to rejoin the single market, which would reverse the most damaging parts of Brexit and ultimately reinstate free movement and trade¹². The roadmap consists of four steps: - Repairing the UK-EU relationship by granting full settled status to EU citizens and ramping up the British presence in Brussels - Phasing in UK-EU cooperation on issues like Erasmus Plus and asylum seekers - Pushing for reciprocal deals on issues like professional qualifications, work visas, and veterinary agreement - Seeking to join the single market once the ties of trust and friendship are renewed² The Lib Dems are not a rejoin party, but they are a very pro-European party⁴⁵. They do not actively seek another referendum on EU membership, but they want to maintain the closest possible relationship with the EU following Brexit⁴. Source: Conversation with Bing, 18/05/2023 (1) Lib Dems set out roadmap for rejoining EU single market - The Independent. www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/lib-dems-uk-eu-single-market-b2034013.html. (2) The 2022 Lib Dem policy on the EU (and why it matters). cepn-libdems.org.uk/2022-libdem-eu-policy/. (3) Liberal Democrats will not campaign to rejoin the EU but will seek .... inews.co.uk/news/politics/liberal-democrats-ed-davey-not-campaign-rejoin-eu-free-movement-833217. (4) Lib Dems: Uneasy party ponders long road back to EU - BBC News. www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-55950950. (5) Lib Dems plot to REJOIN EU single market and 'end Brexit squabbles'. www.express.co.uk/news/politics/1579555/brexit-news-liberal-democrats-spring-conference-eu-single-market-layla-moran-update. |
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Post by mercian on May 18, 2023 22:22:45 GMT
I was simply pointing out that lululemonmustdobetter 's contention that it's the left who demonstrate is not always true. Anyway, as the demo I linked to was about a protest in 2002 I'm pleased that you admit that the NHS was going down the tubes under Labour. Note: Not pleased that it was going down the tubes, but just your admission.
Seems you completely missed the point I was trying to make.I don't think I did. Luckily n this country 'revolutions' usually happen democratically - e.g. UKIP's success. This was exactly what you describe as 'When rebellions/revolutions do occur its due to a build up of socio-economic tension that pushes people into the political sphere'. Neither I or most of the original members of my local branch of UKIP had ever had any political experience though (as I expect usually happens) we were joined by local 'activists' with personal agendas later. |
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Post by jib on May 18, 2023 22:27:42 GMT
I asked the same question re: Labour The Labour Party stance on the EU is that they want to **improve, not scrap, the deal** that Boris Johnson struck with the EU¹. They have laid out detailed plans to seek **limited changes** to the Brexit deal, which would not involve rejoining the single market or the EU bloc¹. Some of the changes they would seek are: - Signing an agrifood agreement to reduce checks and delays on food exports - Restoring visa-free business travel for touring musicians and performers - Improving haulage arrangements to facilitate trade and transport - Restoring mutual recognition for professional qualifications - Securing a deal on financial equivalence for the City of London - Securing associate membership of the EU's Horizon Europe science funding network¹ The Labour Party is not a rejoin party, but they are considering extending **voting rights** to some EU citizens living in the UK if they win the next general election². They believe that people who make a contribution to the country should have a say in how it is governed². However, they do not support another referendum on EU membership, as they respect the decision of the British people⁴. Source: Conversation with Bing, 18/05/2023 (1) Labour unveils plans to seek limited changes to Brexit deal. www.theguardian.com/politics/2022/jun/23/labour-unveil-plans-to-seek-limited-changes-to-brexit-deal. (2) Labour considers extending voting rights to EU citizens - BBC. www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-65590121. (3) The Labour Party and the EU - UK in a changing Europe. ukandeu.ac.uk/the-labour-party-and-the-eu/. (4) The electoral implications of Labour’s EU referendum stance. ukandeu.ac.uk/the-electoral-implications-of-labours-eu-referendum-stance/. (5) Explainer: What is the Labour Party's position on Brexit?. www.reuters.com/article/uk-britain-eu-labour-explainer-idUKKBN1W31GB. |
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