Danny
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Posts: 10,362
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Post by Danny on May 18, 2023 8:02:08 GMT
Oh goodness, its a rerun of the brexit debate then? That the poor are easier to fool because they tend to be less well informed, less politically active and less well educated? Which all contribute to them being less able to discern lies from politicians? |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 18, 2023 8:20:58 GMT
"Nationalism - ideology based on the premise that the individual’s loyalty and devotion to the nation-state surpass other individual or group interests." www.britannica.com/topic/nationalismOf course nationalism is an ideology. People may be legally born citizens of a state but they aren't born nationalists. Socialism is and always has been an internationalist ideology, emphasising the solidarity of those with similar interests and outlook across geographical boundaries. As to my own position, the prior discussion was in the context of Alec's proposal for a truly federal UK (or GB), rather than the existing overly centralised state. I also said that I would be happy to see the UK vanish altogether into a Europe-wide entity and indeed to have a single world government. SNP policy is to join the EU at the earliest opportunity, whereas Labour policy is to rule out any such possiblility.
If one applies the definitions outined above, does that not clearly put the SNP more towards the "socialist" side of the equation, and Labour on the "nationalist" side ?
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Post by barbara on May 18, 2023 8:43:38 GMT
What's wrong with an arranged marriage? That's the premise on which all dating agencies operate. And if young people want help from friends and family in meeting a suitable partner that seems ok to me. You show your ignorance in that I strongly suspect you were referring to forced marriage which is an entirely different kettle of fish. But this is how prejudice works. I'd assume people choose to join a dating agency though? I'm not sure from what I've seen how much choice sometimes people have in family and friends 'helping' them towards an arranged marriage. From what I've seen financial considerations between families are a prime concern. No, anyone who doesn't have a choice is going through forced marriage, which I condemn as strongly as anybody. but if you speak to young people, and not just Asians, many are fed up with going on fruitless dates, sick of the impersonal nature of online dating, worried about predatory males and when approaching their 30s, worried about not meeting anybody suitable to marry and start a family with. There was a very enlightening documentary on Radio 4 which explored this issue. Often it boils down to parents arranging a meeting between two people in their wider social network and then leaving it up to the two young people. Some in the documentary did this two or three times and didn't find success, others ending up getting married. It's all too easy to dismiss such things as the women not having a choice. Arranged marriages are very different to forced marriages. EDIT - also, most of the women were in their mid 20s to mid 30s and almost all middle class professionals. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 18, 2023 8:55:16 GMT
Hurrah For The Blackshirts!
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domjg
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Post by domjg on May 18, 2023 8:58:56 GMT
Hurrah For The Blackshirts!
The DM doing Putin and Xi's bidding, who'd have thought it? |
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Post by eor on May 18, 2023 9:00:28 GMT
That said, we should surely still do what we can to reduce the risk of killing Nana, even if that's ultimately faffing around on the margins of the probabilities? No. Thats the fatal flaw in the logic. nana will die, that is certain given the current state of human knowledge, sooner rather than later. All you can possibly do is delay her death a bit, and the more things you do to try to delay it, the greater the cost grows and grows. So, to make a very extreme example but one entirely valid given what you said, you could stop buying food for her grand daughter to spend instead on precautions to protect granny. This would of course result in her granddaughter dying first. I hope this illustrates the absurdity of what you said. I am sure you would accept I am right, it does not make sense to do this, and granny would be truly horified if you did. Thanks Danny - I tend to skip over your endless covid screeds so it's handy to be reminded what a soulless provocative wanker you really are. |
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Post by shevii on May 18, 2023 9:06:24 GMT
You say that but I can't think of a more left-wing policy than handing out hundreds of pounds to every household to help them cope with their gas bills. That's a liberal policy- allowing the energy producers to continue making excess profits and subsidising those excess profits from the taxpayer in order to keep bills lower for a temporary period. Nationalising them and running on a not for profit basis would be a left wing policy. Nationalising them without compensation would be a far left policy that puts a little smile on my face :-) |
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Post by thylacine on May 18, 2023 9:06:39 GMT
Hurrah For The Blackshirts!
The DM doing Putin and Xi's bidding, who'd have thought it? It really does seem as if the Tories and the Tory press are losing their collective shit. Looking forward to the blood letting should they lose conclusively next election. |
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Post by pete on May 18, 2023 9:15:02 GMT
What's ridiculous about the question? You're a conservative, they're conservatives. You put it on here for some sort of reason? This is the part I found interesting and says all you need to know about nazi-con 'According to its leading exponents, national conservatism is simply the opposite of liberal internationalism. It believes nations are distinctive and should seek to protect this distinctiveness instead of pursuing universal ideas such as global free trade, human rights, international law and the like' You know nothing about me. Don't make assumptions based on your own prejudices. You talking of others 'prejudices' is quiet funny mr snide. But yes, I've always been against nazi's so I suppose I am prejudice, though I'd say it was reasonable prejudice. |
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Post by befuddledbadger on May 18, 2023 9:27:46 GMT
You know nothing about me. Don't make assumptions based on your own prejudices. You talking of others 'prejudices' is quiet funny mr snide. But yes, I've always been against nazi's so I suppose I am prejudice, though I'd say it was reasonable prejudice. Pete (if I may address you in that slightly overfamiliar way), I think you may have got Colin slightly wrong. If I understand him correctly, a big "if" I accept, then I think he is a somewhat restless political soul looking for a vaguely centrist home. That could be Tory, Lib Dem or Labour, maybe even the Greens, he doesn't really mind as long as the party, and the government it forms, governs on behalf of the vast majority of fair minded voters who don't much care for party politics. Like himself, in other words. In that sense, I think he may well be the most unprejudiced and objective poster on this forum. |
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Post by pete on May 18, 2023 9:32:15 GMT
You talking of others 'prejudices' is quiet funny mr snide. But yes, I've always been against nazi's so I suppose I am prejudice, though I'd say it was reasonable prejudice. Pete (if I may address you in that slightly overfamiliar way), I think you may have got Colin slightly wrong. If I understand him correctly, a big "if" I accept, then I think he is a somewhat restless political soul looking for a vaguely centrist home. That could be Tory, Lib Dem or Labour, maybe even the Greens, he doesn't really mind as long as the party, and the government it forms, governs on behalf of the vast majority of fair minded voters who don't much care for party politics. Like himself, in other words. In that sense, I think he may well be the most unprejudiced and objective poster on this forum. You carry on believing that, doesn't mean he gets to attack me without me answering him back for asking a fucking question of which he couldn't come out with a basic simple answer. and of course your post is basically saying he's got me right? Besides, bar the odd mention of the cost of living crisis I don't see any of your description of him in his posts. |
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Post by thylacine on May 18, 2023 9:35:27 GMT
You talking of others 'prejudices' is quiet funny mr snide. But yes, I've always been against nazi's so I suppose I am prejudice, though I'd say it was reasonable prejudice. Pete (if I may address you in that slightly overfamiliar way), I think you may have got Colin slightly wrong. If I understand him correctly, a big "if" I accept, then I think he is a somewhat restless political soul looking for a vaguely centrist home. That could be Tory, Lib Dem or Labour, maybe even the Greens, he doesn't really mind as long as the party, and the government it forms, governs on behalf of the vast majority of fair minded voters who don't much care for party politics. Like himself, in other words. In that sense, I think he may well be the most unprejudiced and objective poster on this forum. I'm in shock.I may have to reach for my meds and lie down in a darkened room 😂 |
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Post by pete on May 18, 2023 9:35:48 GMT
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Post by pete on May 18, 2023 9:37:56 GMT
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Post by barbara on May 18, 2023 9:41:14 GMT
Pete (if I may address you in that slightly overfamiliar way), I think you may have got Colin slightly wrong. If I understand him correctly, a big "if" I accept, then I think he is a somewhat restless political soul looking for a vaguely centrist home. That could be Tory, Lib Dem or Labour, maybe even the Greens, he doesn't really mind as long as the party, and the government it forms, governs on behalf of the vast majority of fair minded voters who don't much care for party politics. Like himself, in other words. In that sense, I think he may well be the most unprejudiced and objective poster on this forum. You carry on believing that, doesn't mean he gets to attack me without me answering him back for asking a fucking question of which he couldn't come out with a basic simple answer. and of course your post is basically saying he's got me right? Besides, bar the odd mention of the cost of living crisis I don't see any of your description of him in his posts. I would suggest pete that befuddled in taking the proverbial p*ss. If he isn't then I'll show my proverbial a*se in the high street.  |
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Post by pete on May 18, 2023 9:41:43 GMT
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Post by moby on May 18, 2023 9:43:38 GMT
I'd assume people choose to join a dating agency though? I'm not sure from what I've seen how much choice sometimes people have in family and friends 'helping' them towards an arranged marriage. From what I've seen financial considerations between families are a prime concern. No, anyone who doesn't have a choice is going through forced marriage, which I condemn as strongly as anybody. but if you speak to young people, and not just Asians, many are fed up with going on fruitless dates, sick of the impersonal nature of online dating, worried about predatory males and when approaching their 30s, worried about not meeting anybody suitable to marry and start a family with. There was a very enlightening documentary on Radio 4 which explored this issue. Often it boils down to parents arranging a meeting between two people in their wider social network and then leaving it up to the two young people. Some in the documentary did this two or three times and didn't find success, others ending up getting married. It's all too easy to dismiss such things as the women not having a choice. Arranged marriages are very different to forced marriages. EDIT - also, most of the women were in their mid 20s to mid 30s and almost all middle class professionals. For me defining 'choice' when you have family, friends and financial concerns often at the forefront makes the line between 'forced and 'arranged' a blurred one and I am prejudiced in favour of letting people make their own decisions. |
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Post by pete on May 18, 2023 9:43:57 GMT
You carry on believing that, doesn't mean he gets to attack me without me answering him back for asking a fucking question of which he couldn't come out with a basic simple answer. and of course your post is basically saying he's got me right? Besides, bar the odd mention of the cost of living crisis I don't see any of your description of him in his posts. I would suggest pete that befuddled in taking the proverbial p*ss. If he isn't then I'll show my proverbial a*se in the high street. Re-reading, you could be right and they could well be, in which case they whooshed me good n proper. I'll need to apologise to them. |
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Post by wb61 on May 18, 2023 10:12:39 GMT
You carry on believing that, doesn't mean he gets to attack me without me answering him back for asking a fucking question of which he couldn't come out with a basic simple answer. and of course your post is basically saying he's got me right? Besides, bar the odd mention of the cost of living crisis I don't see any of your description of him in his posts. I would suggest pete that befuddled in taking the proverbial p*ss. If he isn't then I'll show my proverbial a*se in the high street. I never realised your A**e was subject of a proverb  |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 18, 2023 10:12:42 GMT
I would suggest pete that befuddled in taking the proverbial p*ss. If he isn't then I'll show my proverbial a*se in the high street. Re-reading, you could be right and they could well be, in which case they whooshed me good n proper. I'll need to apologise to them. I think s/he is only one badger and I’m sure you don’t need to apologise. (Sounds like a nasty piece of work to me anyway, befuddled or not.) However, to quote Dick Emery, he is awful - but I like him. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 18, 2023 10:17:44 GMT
I would suggest pete that befuddled in taking the proverbial p*ss. If he isn't then I'll show my proverbial a*se in the high street. I never realised your A**e was subject of a proverb I’m reporting barbara for such language. I once knew a very nice family who were voted catholic; when the younger daughter used the word “bottom” she was speedily corrected by her mother with: “Bottom quarters, Angela.” Mind you, threatening to show one’s bottom quarters in public is utterly disgusting. (Especially for a lady.) |
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Post by thylacine on May 18, 2023 10:19:34 GMT
Re-reading, you could be right and they could well be, in which case they whooshed me good n proper. I'll need to apologise to them. I think s/he is only one badger and I’m sure you don’t need to apologise. (Sounds like a nasty piece of work to me anyway, befuddled or not.) However, to quote Dick Emery, he is awful - but I like him. Personal pronouns can be contentious. I also have a feeling that Befuddled may well be "an old friend" in new guise  |
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c-a-r-f-r-e-w
Member
A step on the way toward the demise of the liberal elite? Or just a blip…
Posts: 6,721
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Post by c-a-r-f-r-e-w on May 18, 2023 10:36:24 GMT
BT is to cut 55,000 jobs by the end of the decade including replacing around 10,000 workers with artificial intelligence (AI).
The telecoms giant will reduce the size of its workforce by 40pc by the end of the 2030 financial year.
Chief executive Philip Jansen said the new BT will be a “leaner business with a brighter future”.
Around 25,000 jobs will be cut through a reduction in engineers as the company’s full-fibre rollout comes to an end and old copper networks are shut down.
Roughly 10,000 roles will be replaced by automation as the company embraces artificial intelligence.
Mr Jansen said BT would be a “huge beneficiary” of AI, which he said could save the company hundreds of millions of pounds compared to its old IT systems.
He said: “Yes it has its risks, we’ve got to be very careful, but I personally think it’s going to be as big as the internet and as big as mobile phones. This is a massive change.”
Telegraph
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Post by barbara on May 18, 2023 11:04:31 GMT
I would suggest pete that befuddled in taking the proverbial p*ss. If he isn't then I'll show my proverbial a*se in the high street. I never realised your A**e was subject of a proverb It was literary license. |
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Post by pete on May 18, 2023 11:09:13 GMT
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Post by leftieliberal on May 18, 2023 11:21:38 GMT
SNP policy is to join the EU at the earliest opportunity, whereas Labour policy is to rule out any such possiblility.
If one applies the definitions outined above, does that not clearly put the SNP more towards the "socialist" side of the equation, and Labour on the "nationalist" side ?
As socialists in the 1970s and 1980s opposed the EU as a "capitalist's club", surely that makes the SNP "Tartan Tories".  |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 18, 2023 11:35:09 GMT
But yes, I've always been against nazi's so I suppose I am prejudice, though I'd say it was reasonable prejudice. You are Laszlo * and I claim my £5 * minus the intellect of course. |
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steve
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Post by steve on May 18, 2023 11:39:36 GMT
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steve
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Post by steve on May 18, 2023 11:40:49 GMT
colinHow much does the intellect cost?
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Post by moby on May 18, 2023 11:43:19 GMT
SNP policy is to join the EU at the earliest opportunity, whereas Labour policy is to rule out any such possiblility.
If one applies the definitions outined above, does that not clearly put the SNP more towards the "socialist" side of the equation, and Labour on the "nationalist" side ?
As socialists in the 1970s and 1980s opposed the EU as a "capitalist's club", surely that makes the SNP "Tartan Tories". Yep its hard to see how a particular policy captured in one moment of time defines a political tradition. Life is far more complicated than that. |
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