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Post by Deleted on Apr 26, 2023 18:49:41 GMT
I'm afraid I have to agree with jayblanc. I find the forum an increasingly unpleasant and boring place to be in and, when you find yourself blocking a handful of rather odd and obsessive individuals (of all persuasions) who happen to contribute >50% of posts between them, what's the point? Today's childish and frankly bizarre behaviour from one of them - and Mark's response (to do nothing) - doesn't fill me with confidence that things will improve, especially not if that poster is now obsessing over and dictating the rules themselves. I have way better things to do with my time.
I might look back in as a guest as soon as anything exciting such as an election or change of PM happens, because that's when the forum is most interesting. All the best 
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pjw1961
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Government, even in its best state, is but a necessary evil; in its worst state, an intolerable one.
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Post by pjw1961 on Apr 26, 2023 18:55:20 GMT
Arguing with the referee is never a good look.
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Mr Poppy
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Teaching assistant and now your elected PM
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Post by Mr Poppy on Apr 26, 2023 19:01:08 GMT
Illegal Migration Bill - Third Reading. 289 Ayes - 230 Noes. Full breakdown: votes.parliament.uk/Votes/Commons/Division/1534ZERO CON rebels although 67 did abstain and some of those names (eg May) were certainly not matched where as likes of Boris might still be on holiday and hence were matched? 36 LAB MPs abstained and whilst some might have abstained as a 'soft' break of the whip then probably fair to say that 30ish CON MPs abstained as a 'soft' rebellion. PS There will almost certainly be at least one round of 'ping pong' between HoL and HoC but CON can go into the LE's saying they are pushing through their plan to "Stop to Boats" and highlight that Starmer-LAB voted against. Being a cynic then I'm going to stick my neck out and say CON managed the timing of the vote and 'ping pong' very well. Jenrick made some 'headline/clickbait' ready phrases as well (eg "essentially asylum shoppers"). Bit cringe I admit but if you want the press to give you a specific headline/clickbait then might as well write it for them (and we've already seen polling on some of the Jenrick-Braverman comments) PPS Honest guv. I only checked after posting the PS but in the least surprising "attack ad" ever then see:
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pjw1961
Member
Government, even in its best state, is but a necessary evil; in its worst state, an intolerable one.
Posts: 8,600
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Post by pjw1961 on Apr 26, 2023 19:01:18 GMT
The Scotland crossbreak from YG is the first real sign that the travails of the SNP may be having a dire effect on their VI.
SLab 23% : DK 20% : WNV 13% : SCon 13% : SNP 12% : SLD 8% : SGP 7% : Other 2% : REFUK 1% As a cross break it will be a small sample size with all that implies for its representative accuracy. I would expect the SNP to suffer in the polls, but that looks extreme and unlikely (presumably a lot of SNP support has gone to DK/WNV). Still I have to concede Graham's optimism about Labour's chances in Scotland could yet come to pass, albeit for reasons none of us foresaw earlier. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 26, 2023 19:08:10 GMT
I'm afraid I have to agree with jayblanc . I find the forum an increasingly unpleasant and boring place to be in and, when you find yourself blocking a handful of rather odd and obsessive individuals (of all persuasions) who happen to contribute >50% of posts between them, what's the point? Today's childish and frankly bizarre behaviour from one of them - and Mark 's response (to do nothing) - doesn't fill me with confidence that things will improve, especially not if that poster is now obsessing over and dictating the rules themselves. I have way better things to do with my time.
I might look back in as a guest as soon as anything exciting such as an election or change of PM happens, because that's when the forum is most interesting. All the best
Sotonsaint Absolutely agree with you. Although I only post rarely I have continued to check in fairly regularly. Following today’s bizarre goings on I no longer wish to do even that any longer and will be grateful if someone can possibly point out where the instructions for deleting one’s account can be found. Thanks. Tata. |
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Mr Poppy
Member
Teaching assistant and now your elected PM
Posts: 3,774
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Post by Mr Poppy on Apr 26, 2023 19:15:28 GMT
I'm afraid I have to agree with jayblanc . I find the forum an increasingly unpleasant and boring place to be in and, when you find yourself blocking a handful of rather odd and obsessive individuals (of all persuasions) who happen to contribute >50% of posts between them, what's the point? Today's childish and frankly bizarre behaviour from one of them - and Mark 's response (to do nothing) - doesn't fill me with confidence that things will improve, especially not if that poster is now obsessing over and dictating the rules themselves. I have way better things to do with my time.
I might look back in as a guest as soon as anything exciting such as an election or change of PM happens, because that's when the forum is most interesting. All the best
Sotonsaint Absolutely agree with you. Although I only post rarely I have continued to check in fairly regularly. Following today’s bizarre goings on I no longer wish to do even that any longer and will be grateful if someone can possibly point out where the instructions for deleting one’s account can be found. Thanks. Tata. Happy to help yourself and others delete their accounts if that is what you/others wish to do. Under "profile" click on "settings". At the bottom you'll see: Delete Forum Account Removes this account from this forum. All posts will remain.
Delete Account
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Post by alec on Apr 26, 2023 19:18:02 GMT
There is no perception of moderator bias. Only in one posters mind, who is a self confessed twat. That's all we need to know.
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steve
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Post by steve on Apr 26, 2023 19:47:08 GMT
MPs back illegal migration bill by 289 votes to 230
Lowest of the low
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Post by shevii on Apr 26, 2023 19:53:08 GMT
Not having been paying attention and with people saying this was an illegal bill I assumed the Guardian and others were calling it an illegal migration bill meaning an illegal illegal migration bill. Only just found out it's title is illegal migration bill.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 26, 2023 20:03:59 GMT
There is no perception of moderator bias. Only in one posters mind, who is a self confessed twat. That's all we need to know. There’s no perception of moderation of any sort that I’ve been able to see. Anyway, not my concern. |
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Post by wb61 on Apr 26, 2023 20:12:18 GMT
On altogether less fraught matters, there is one local government by-election tomorrow, but even less exciting than last week's. It is Swansea UA, Penderry ward. The result when it was last contested (2022) was: Lab 1022, 1019, 967; Con 269 - so a very safe Labour seat (Lab 79.2%, Con 20.8%). All major parties are standing - Conservative, Labour, Lib Dem, Green and Plaid Cymru. Obviously, with more candidate the Labour vote share will fall - potentially by a lot - but it would still be a major surprise if they lost the seat. Penderry ward was my first when I joined the Labour party at 18 Trevor Burtonshaw brought me in canvassed all elections council and general from 1979 until 1985 when I went to Ruskin |
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Post by thylacine on Apr 26, 2023 20:18:57 GMT
So Crofty has gone ! Feels like the end of an era. Sad also to say goodbye to Sotonsaint and Jayblanc. I suppose we might hope you rejoin us closer to the election.
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pjw1961
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Government, even in its best state, is but a necessary evil; in its worst state, an intolerable one.
Posts: 8,600
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Post by pjw1961 on Apr 26, 2023 20:19:54 GMT
There is no perception of moderator bias. Only in one posters mind, who is a self confessed twat. That's all we need to know. And to prove your description is correct (but much too polite) he is busy 'liking' the posts of people who are leaving because of him. |
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domjg
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Post by domjg on Apr 26, 2023 20:28:07 GMT
Will very much miss @sotonsaint, @crofty and jayblanc. Maybe a break, at least until the locals wouldn't be a bad idea, this place can become a bit too addictive in a way and like anything that has that effect, that's not generally positive, especially when some posters can be so cynical which can bring out the worst in one. 'Are you on that board again?'my wife is occasionally wont to say with an eye roll. |
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Post by wb61 on Apr 26, 2023 20:36:25 GMT
Will very much miss @sotonsaint, @crofty and jayblanc. Maybe a break, at least until the locals wouldn't be a bad idea, this place can become a bit too addictive in a way and like anything that has that effect, that's not generally positive, especially when some posters can be so cynical which can bring out the worst in one. 'Are you on that board again?'my wife is occasionally wont to say with an eye roll. Mine too funnily enough |
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pjw1961
Member
Government, even in its best state, is but a necessary evil; in its worst state, an intolerable one.
Posts: 8,600
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Post by pjw1961 on Apr 26, 2023 20:44:07 GMT
So Crofty has gone ! Feels like the end of an era. Sad also to say goodbye to Sotonsaint and Jayblanc. I suppose we might hope you rejoin us closer to the election. Crossbat11 before them. I have noticed several other previous regulars who are posting less. For no particular reason I am suddenly reminded of Aristophanes play, "The Frogs": "I have often noticed that there are good and honest citizens in Athens, who are as old gold is to new money. The ancient coins are excellent in point of standard; they are assuredly the best of all moneys; they alone are well struck and give a pure ring; everywhere they obtain currency, both in Greece and in strange lands; yet we make no use of them and prefer those bad copper pieces quite recently issued and so wretchedly struck. Exactly in the same way do we deal with our citizens. If we know them to be well-born, sober, brave, honest, adepts in the exercises of the gymnasium and in the liberal arts, they are the butts of our contumely and we have only a use for the petty rubbish, consisting of strangers, slaves and low-born folk not worth a whit more, mushrooms of yesterday, whom formerly Athens would not have even wanted as scapegoats." |
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domjg
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Post by domjg on Apr 26, 2023 20:55:52 GMT
So Crofty has gone ! Feels like the end of an era. Sad also to say goodbye to Sotonsaint and Jayblanc. I suppose we might hope you rejoin us closer to the election. Crossbat11 before them. I have noticed several other previous regulars who are posting less. For no particular reason I am suddenly reminded of Aristophanes play, "The Frogs": "I have often noticed that there are good and honest citizens in Athens, who are as old gold is to new money. The ancient coins are excellent in point of standard; they are assuredly the best of all moneys; they alone are well struck and give a pure ring; everywhere they obtain currency, both in Greece and in strange lands; yet we make no use of them and prefer those bad copper pieces quite recently issued and so wretchedly struck. Exactly in the same way do we deal with our citizens. If we know them to be well-born, sober, brave, honest, adepts in the exercises of the gymnasium and in the liberal arts, they are the butts of our contumely and we have only a use for the petty rubbish, consisting of strangers, slaves and low-born folk not worth a whit more, mushrooms of yesterday, whom formerly Athens would not have even wanted as scapegoats." Well, that, to me, sums up post brexit and especially post Johnson politics in this country very succinctly! |
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Post by peterbell on Apr 26, 2023 21:05:33 GMT
It seems to me that Warne is deliberately trying to destroy this board. Many of the good posters have now left or are only posting on rare occasions. I enjoyed the board in the past but as I said recently it was starting to cause anxiety for me. Was put on antidepressants this morning and following yesterday and todays happenings I am now feeling totally uptight.
Therefore while not deleting membership, I shall only look at the board on rare occasions when something interesting such as an election is occurring.
A big disapointment after following UKPR for about 15 years.
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pjw1961
Member
Government, even in its best state, is but a necessary evil; in its worst state, an intolerable one.
Posts: 8,600
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Post by pjw1961 on Apr 26, 2023 21:13:02 GMT
Crossbat11 before them. I have noticed several other previous regulars who are posting less. For no particular reason I am suddenly reminded of Aristophanes play, "The Frogs": "I have often noticed that there are good and honest citizens in Athens, who are as old gold is to new money. The ancient coins are excellent in point of standard; they are assuredly the best of all moneys; they alone are well struck and give a pure ring; everywhere they obtain currency, both in Greece and in strange lands; yet we make no use of them and prefer those bad copper pieces quite recently issued and so wretchedly struck. Exactly in the same way do we deal with our citizens. If we know them to be well-born, sober, brave, honest, adepts in the exercises of the gymnasium and in the liberal arts, they are the butts of our contumely and we have only a use for the petty rubbish, consisting of strangers, slaves and low-born folk not worth a whit more, mushrooms of yesterday, whom formerly Athens would not have even wanted as scapegoats." Well, that, to me, sums up post brexit and especially post Johnson politics in this country very succinctly! There's nothing new under the sun. Btw it didn't work out well for the Athenians in the long run. They built a great state and then blew it all through a combination of greed and arrogance. |
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pjw1961
Member
Government, even in its best state, is but a necessary evil; in its worst state, an intolerable one.
Posts: 8,600
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Post by pjw1961 on Apr 26, 2023 21:19:22 GMT
It seems to me that Warne is deliberately trying to destroy this board. Many of the good posters have now left or are only posting on rare occasions. I enjoyed the board in the past but as I said recently it was starting to cause anxiety for me. Was put on antidepressants this morning and following yesterday and todays happenings I am now feeling totally uptight. Therefore while not deleting membership, I shall only look at the board on rare occasions when something interesting such as an election is occurring. A big disapointment after following UKPR for about 15 years. Impossible to blame you for that. When I was a lurker for about 5 years on UKPR I used to skip certain posters completely of whom Warne was one and I was happier for it I suppose. As a member I feel compelled to at least skim read most things. |
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domjg
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Posts: 5,137
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Post by domjg on Apr 26, 2023 21:20:26 GMT
Well, that, to me, sums up post brexit and especially post Johnson politics in this country very succinctly! There's nothing new under the sun. Btw it didn't work out well for the Athenians in the long run. They built a great state and then blew it all through a combination of greed and arrogance. Think the 'high' and 'low' born bits may be somewhat out of date though. Seems to me our current travails were engineered very much by those considering themselves to be 'high' born and from one educational establishment in particular. |
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Post by alec on Apr 26, 2023 21:32:10 GMT
Although it might be seen as bad news by a fair few, personally speaking I've no intention of quitting the board. It is a shame to see some regular contributors call it a day, although we can hope some of them might return. I know where @crofty lives, as they say, so there is always the possibility we could force him back.
More seriously, the quality of UKPR and then UKPR2 waxes and wanes, as does the political balance. Yes, Trevor is an affected twat, albeit a twat who regularly posts polling data amongst the nonsense, but the best way to respond to twats in such a situation is to chug along doing whatever it is you enjoy doing, and not to let the twats push you off balance.
If this generalist board with a general focus on polling is the kind of thing that floats your boat, I'd suggest you stick with it. You will have to sit through phases of boredom, rudeness, and the odd twat, but all things will pass, and there's usually plenty of good stuff in the mix.
There was never a heyday of UKPR. That was always a myth. The board has never been balanced, just imbalanced in different ways, there were always obsessions, partisan bickering, personal animosities and the odd twat. Twas ever thus.
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pjw1961
Member
Government, even in its best state, is but a necessary evil; in its worst state, an intolerable one.
Posts: 8,600
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Post by pjw1961 on Apr 26, 2023 21:37:46 GMT
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Post by Rafwan on Apr 26, 2023 21:43:12 GMT
It seems to me that Warne is deliberately trying to destroy this board. Many of the good posters have now left or are only posting on rare occasions. I enjoyed the board in the past but as I said recently it was starting to cause anxiety for me. Was put on antidepressants this morning and following yesterday and todays happenings I am now feeling totally uptight. Therefore while not deleting membership, I shall only look at the board on rare occasions when something interesting such as an election is occurring. A big disapointment after following UKPR for about 15 years. Impossible to blame you for that. When I was a lurker for about 5 years on UKPR I used to skip certain posters completely of whom Warne was one and I was happier for it I suppose. As a member I feel compelled to at least skim read most things. Why? |
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Post by alec on Apr 26, 2023 21:44:46 GMT
For those interested, I have just posted on the covid thread a paper showing arterial stiffening post mild covid in a small cohort of fit, healthy younger subjects. The researchers were surprised to find that the stiffening actually worsened over time after infection, which is a little worrying. It's a form of inflammatory response and isn't great for circulatory systems.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 26, 2023 21:46:55 GMT
sounds like a case of shooting the messenger to me.
People were told if they voted for Brexit it would make them poorer.
They voted for Brexit.
James OBrien is spot on ...
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Post by Rafwan on Apr 26, 2023 21:50:01 GMT
In line with Mark’s request, I have changed my name so that I no longer bask in the glory of steve, a relief to him I am sure. The origin of my new name was the first iteration of an attempt at ‘granddad’ in this household a few years back.
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Post by wb61 on Apr 26, 2023 21:51:33 GMT
The trick capitalist apologists have used over the years has been to equate the small business owner to large scale enterprise, giving them the soubriquet "entrepreneurs" to glamorise them and separate them from workers. The reality is that those self employed in small businesses along with the workers in the private and public sectors that have no leverage in the economy are all being sh*t upon to ensure the preeminent profits of big business and the merchant bankers that fund it's ability to maintain market dominance. The need for solidarity from those whose work, rather than speculation, funds their existence, need to make common cause against the monopolistic gambling class that currently run the country through their proxies that sit in numbers 10 & 11 Downing Street |
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pjw1961
Member
Government, even in its best state, is but a necessary evil; in its worst state, an intolerable one.
Posts: 8,600
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Post by pjw1961 on Apr 26, 2023 21:58:26 GMT
Impossible to blame you for that. When I was a lurker for about 5 years on UKPR I used to skip certain posters completely of whom Warne was one and I was happier for it I suppose. As a member I feel compelled to at least skim read most things. Why? God knows! |
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pjw1961
Member
Government, even in its best state, is but a necessary evil; in its worst state, an intolerable one.
Posts: 8,600
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Post by pjw1961 on Apr 26, 2023 22:04:34 GMT
sounds like a case of shooting the messenger to me.
People were told if they voted for Brexit it would make them poorer.
They voted for Brexit.
James OBrien is spot on ...
My major problem was when Pill said "we are all poorer". This is not true. The poor are poorer, the middle are poorer, the rich are richer than they have ever been. We urgently need good old fashioned redistribution of wealth via progressive taxation. Even in a capitalist context it would make sense, by increasing buying power for everyone so stimulating the economy. But neo-liberal ideology demands the super-rich be allowed to hoard more and more unspent wealth at the expense of everyone else. |
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