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Post by RAF on Oct 16, 2022 16:12:05 GMT
Well she was in the Lib Dems once.  That got her started but I've just found out that in the early 80’s Truss used to attend secret caucus meetings of the International Socialists (a Marxist organisation with a Trot. agenda). Aim to destroy capitalism. At the time she claimed that the only way to do this was to get legitimate political power. There was no chance in the Lib.Dems and Labour was too reformist. Revolution will come through chaos but you first have to break down the structures of the state. In the early 80s, Truss would have been a primary school child! She was born in 1975. Her parents were very left wing though, so her politics at this stage would have been very influenced by them. |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 16, 2022 16:20:07 GMT
@crofty - when you say "near the foot of the Premiership table", how near do you mean? @crofty alec it would be courteous to wait until he's got back from the match at least before rubbing it in. I’m asking - in advance - that people don’t do that. |
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pjw1961
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Post by pjw1961 on Oct 16, 2022 16:20:16 GMT
That got her started but I've just found out that in the early 80’s Truss used to attend secret caucus meetings of the International Socialists (a Marxist organisation with a Trot. agenda). Aim to destroy capitalism. At the time she claimed that the only way to do this was to get legitimate political power. There was no chance in the Lib.Dems and Labour was too reformist. Revolution will come through chaos but you first have to break down the structures of the state. In the early 80s, Truss would have been a primary school child! She was born in 1975. Her parents were very left wing though, so her politics at this stage would have been very influenced by them. Have you not heard of the Busy Bees Revolutionary Socialist Montessori Nursery for Tiny Trots. |
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Post by johntel on Oct 16, 2022 16:33:57 GMT
@crofty alec it would be courteous to wait until he's got back from the match at least before rubbing it in. I’m asking - in advance - that people don’t do that. You're right, on second thoughts it's maybe better to get the inquest out of the way before he gets back, so he won't see it Personally I think the Villa are doomed unless they sack Gerard. |
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Post by shevii on Oct 16, 2022 16:46:27 GMT
Out of courtesy to the very popular crossbat11 can I ask if people refrain from posting about Aston Villa’s home defeat and their position near the foot of the Premiership table? Thankyou. Paul Let's talk about our walk today then- thanks for inviting me and it was a really good idea of you to suggest we leave mobile phones at home as it made the walk more enjoyable without any distractions. I thought you had brought your phone along when you told me Villa were losing but, as you explained, well it's 6 minutes past two and the game kicked off at two. |
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Post by mercian on Oct 16, 2022 16:53:09 GMT
It's a fine line, but clerics should stay out of politics. Didn't Jesus say "Render unto Caesar that which is Caesar's and render unto God that which is God's"? Then why do we have Bishops in the House of Lords? We shouldn't (IMO). |
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Post by alec on Oct 16, 2022 17:06:50 GMT
"Then why do we have Bishops in the House of Lords?" Ha! Get out of that one, mercian, you old Fascist! |
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Post by alec on Oct 16, 2022 17:11:07 GMT
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Post by caroline on Oct 16, 2022 17:13:02 GMT
Then why do we have Bishops in the House of Lords? We shouldn't (IMO). I agree we shouldn't......hopefully the next Labour government will reform the HOL. But surely the role of the church is to support the least advantaged and clerics have a duty to speak out about inequalities that divide society and perpetuates misery for so many. |
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steve
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Post by steve on Oct 16, 2022 17:29:11 GMT
pjw1961 Shouldn't that be tiny Trots?
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Post by leftieliberal on Oct 16, 2022 17:31:30 GMT
Then why do we have Bishops in the House of Lords? We shouldn't (IMO). I could make the same comment about Prime Ministers' cronies. I think the Bishops do less damage on the whole. |
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steve
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Post by steve on Oct 16, 2022 17:33:09 GMT
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steve
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Post by steve on Oct 16, 2022 17:38:21 GMT
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Post by bedknobsandboomstick on Oct 16, 2022 17:38:23 GMT
I do hope someone's checking in on Andrew Lilico in a regular basis.
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Post by hireton on Oct 16, 2022 17:42:54 GMT
Political direction of English and Welsh police forces by the far right Home Secretary:
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Post by mercian on Oct 16, 2022 17:45:45 GMT
I agree we shouldn't......hopefully the next Labour government will reform the HOL. But surely the role of the church is to support the least advantaged and clerics have a duty to speak out about inequalities that divide society and perpetuates misery for so many. That's why I said it was a fine line. On the HoL I can't see it being significantly reformed any time soon. It must be very difficult for a PM to give up the opportunity to promote cronies or donators to the other place. Possibly they might put a limit on the number of appointments or reduce it if there is one already, but that would be about it. |
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Post by lefthanging on Oct 16, 2022 17:54:32 GMT
It's a fine line, but clerics should stay out of politics. Didn't Jesus say "Render unto Caesar that which is Caesar's and render unto God that which is God's"? Interpreting Jesus' sayings is a tricky business, but most scholars do not see this passage establishing a Chinese wall between politics and religion. Indeed the idea that Jesus would see any sphere of human activity as lying outside God's authority appears to run completely counter to his wider teachings. Not to mention his vivid non-conformism and hostility to political and religious authorities. Here's the full passage for context: Then, going away, the Pharisees took counsel together regarding how they might ensnare him in words. And they send their disciples to him, along with the Herodians, saying, “Teacher, we know that you are truthful and that you teach the way of God in truth, and you harbor no anxiety toward anyone, for you are not a respecter of men’s persons; Tell us, then, how does it seem to you? Is it lawful to render the poll-tax to Caesar or not?” But knowing their wickedness Jesus said, “Why do you try me, you charlatans? Show me the coin for the poll-tax.” And they brought a denarius to him. And he says to them, “Whose image is this and whose inscription?” They say, “Caesar’s.” Then he says to them, “Then render the things that are Caesar’s to Caesar and the things that are God's to God"One common scholarly interpretation is this. The Pharisees rightly recognised that Jesus' moral teachings effectively endorsed the non-payment of taxes to the corrupt Roman regime. The Pharisees were hostile to Jesus, and therefore they wanted him to explicitly say this - on the record, as it were - in order to get get him in trouble with the authorities. Jesus, ever the pragmatist, manages to avoid this trap. He doesn't explicit call for non-payment of taxes but for those 'in the know' - those who recognise the powerlessness of all earthly powers - the message was clear enough. All belongs to God - so by all means give Caesar what he deserves, but that's not to say he deserves anything at all! The whole point is that nothing (rightfully) belongs to Caesar - so to render to Caesar what is Caesar's is to render nothing at all. |
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Post by hireton on Oct 16, 2022 17:58:40 GMT
The Scottish Green Party has voted to suspend its formal association with the Green Party of England and Wales:
"until such time that action is taken that satisfies the membership of the Scottish Green Party, through Conference or SGP Council to address both issues of transphobia and respect for the Scottish Green Party, our independence as a party, and the devolution settlement”.
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Post by lefthanging on Oct 16, 2022 18:00:53 GMT
mercian Of course I suppose the above is just an interesting diversion if one doesn't see the words of Jesus as authoritative. Personally I agree that religious leaders should avoid being overtly 'party political' or getting into the details of policy delivery. As you say though, this is a fine line - and for most people religion is not simply a matter of belief, but practice. Thus the Church provides not only spiritual but moral instruction. At any rate Jesus' teachings were unavoidably political and social in nature, and it is clear that he saw the poor as the special and holy people of God. That may be why (in the UK at least) religiosity is a predictor of left-wing politics - and an even stronger predictor of taking social action more broadly in the sense of undertaking charitable work, almsgiving, working for food banks, etc. So if a government acts in ways that manifestly fuels poverty, individualism and discrimination then surely the Christian response must be - as the old Archbish said - this cannot stand up to the judgment of God.
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jib
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Post by jib on Oct 16, 2022 18:21:55 GMT
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neilj
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Post by neilj on Oct 16, 2022 18:26:43 GMT
52-48, not a good omen 😀
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pjw1961
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Post by pjw1961 on Oct 16, 2022 18:27:22 GMT
pjw1961 Shouldn't that be tiny Trots? That was so good steve, I have edited it! |
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Post by robbiealive on Oct 16, 2022 18:28:54 GMT
The Scottish Green Party has voted to suspend its formal association with the Green Party of England and Wales: "until such time that action is taken that satisfies the membership of the Scottish Green Party, through Conference or SGP Council to address both issues of transphobia and respect for the Scottish Green Party, our independence as a party, and the devolution settlement”.
The above should keep everyone busy for a while. The "both" doesn't really fit with the rest of the sentence? |
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Post by hireton on Oct 16, 2022 18:37:05 GMT
And they're off...
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Post by robbiealive on Oct 16, 2022 18:47:42 GMT
I suppose it is Sunday so bound to be a lot of chat about . . .
er football, or Aston Villa. I must have seen that name 10,000 times and I still don't really know where it is. I know I'm biased but somehow Manchester eclipsed Birmingham long ago as the second city.
As for religion, I was brought up an RC in the 50s. We didn't get much doctrine, no Old Testament, lots of v vivid New Testament yarns & basically we were told: what was forbidden & what you must do and to despise other religions, esp Protestants. None of the others got mentioned really.
David Lodge's novel How Far Can You Go (I thought it was his best: the University ones are OK but the Uni novel is a pretty stock form? & after Lucky Jim what was there left to say in that sub-genre, tho Lodge's Changing Places is pretty good) brings out how unnecessarily hard the RC religion made things for the more sensitive types born, as he was, 10 years or so before me. But it was quite easy to escape in the '60s, tho I found it hard to really swear until I was 15. I have made up fot it since.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 16, 2022 18:54:13 GMT
And then there were three. |
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Post by mercian on Oct 16, 2022 19:02:25 GMT
It's a fine line, but clerics should stay out of politics. Didn't Jesus say "Render unto Caesar that which is Caesar's and render unto God that which is God's"? Interpreting Jesus' sayings is a tricky business, but most scholars do not see this passage establishing a Chinese wall between politics and religion. Indeed the idea that Jesus would see any sphere of human activity as lying outside God's authority appears to run completely counter to his wider teachings. Not to mention his vivid non-conformism and hostility to political and religious authorities. An interesting alternative view. I've always said that true communism (as opposed to authoritarian regimes calling themselves that) was basically Christianity without the mysticism. |
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Post by mercian on Oct 16, 2022 19:05:15 GMT
mercian Of course I suppose the above is just an interesting diversion if one doesn't see the words of Jesus as authoritative. Personally I agree that religious leaders should avoid being overtly 'party political' or getting into the details of policy delivery. As you say though, this is a fine line - and for most people religion is not simply a matter of belief, but practice. Thus the Church provides not only spiritual but moral instruction. At any rate Jesus' teachings were unavoidably political and social in nature, and it is clear that he saw the poor as the special and holy people of God. That may be why (in the UK at least) religiosity is a predictor of left-wing politics - and an even stronger predictor of taking social action more broadly in the sense of undertaking charitable work, almsgiving, working for food banks, etc. So if a government acts in ways that manifestly fuels poverty, individualism and discrimination then surely the Christian response must be - as the old Archbish said - this cannot stand up to the judgment of God. Whatever happened to the CoE being 'the Tory party at prayer'? 😄 |
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domjg
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Post by domjg on Oct 16, 2022 19:12:21 GMT
mercian All the CoE clergy I've known, inc in my wider family, do not really hide their clear loc leanings.
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Post by graham on Oct 16, 2022 19:16:15 GMT
mercian Of course I suppose the above is just an interesting diversion if one doesn't see the words of Jesus as authoritative. Personally I agree that religious leaders should avoid being overtly 'party political' or getting into the details of policy delivery. As you say though, this is a fine line - and for most people religion is not simply a matter of belief, but practice. Thus the Church provides not only spiritual but moral instruction. At any rate Jesus' teachings were unavoidably political and social in nature, and it is clear that he saw the poor as the special and holy people of God. That may be why (in the UK at least) religiosity is a predictor of left-wing politics - and an even stronger predictor of taking social action more broadly in the sense of undertaking charitable work, almsgiving, working for food banks, etc. So if a government acts in ways that manifestly fuels poverty, individualism and discrimination then surely the Christian response must be - as the old Archbish said - this cannot stand up to the judgment of God. Whatever happened to the CoE being 'the Tory party at prayer'? 😄 Perhaps it is simply a case of having discovered that the modern Tory party cannot be easily reconciled with a sense of Christian decency. |
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