domjg
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Post by domjg on Oct 16, 2022 9:15:53 GMT
Ah but by now there are quite a lot of bitter leave voters also putting the boot in against the leave campaign. Yes, the fabled uplands. Milk and honey all round, particularly in the red wall. No more Eastern European competition for that minimum wage job. That's not why I voted for Brexit, it was a wide coalition. As my neighbour said on that fateful June day "this is the only chance we'll get to escape". Thank heavens we did. Shame my family and I won't get an easy chance to escape you and your idiot neighbour. |
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Danny
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Post by Danny on Oct 16, 2022 9:16:40 GMT
Oh please. My vote, my choice.Grow up and get over it. So own it. Stop trying to blame remainers for what has happened because you voted for it and would do so again if allowed a second vote now. Its no good saying everyone else in the world destroyed yuour dream of what brexit would look like. Its exactly because no other nation was going to miraculously give the Uk everything it wanted that brexit wasnt going to work. Could never work. It was all a pipe dream used simply to get con into power. Its no diffrent to Putin invading ukraine to make Russia great. Thats all gone horribly wrong too. |
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domjg
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Post by domjg on Oct 16, 2022 9:17:58 GMT
Thanks to domjg for his usual unbiased response. Fine and dandy indeed. Undoubtedly my Lib Dem friend will be along soon. Looking at the figures which were attributed to a well known Davos Globalist Remoaner, I can conclude that there's little worthwhile trend. Only if you use dodgy stats and base your assumption on the exceptional 2015 that the Remoaner "facts" add up. GDP figures - $ trillions Year 2010 2011 2012 2013 2014 2015 2016 2017 2018 2019 2020 2021 Germany 3.4 3.75 3.53 3.73 3.89 3.36 3.47 3.69 3.98 3.89 3.85 4.22 UK 2.49 2.67 2.72 2.8 3.09 2.96 2.72 2.7 2.9 2.88 2.76 3.19 % 73.2 71.2 77.1 75.1 79.4 88.1 78.4 73.2 72.9 74.0 71.7 75.6 Source: World Bank "Globalist" has particular connotations as a smeer. Sad to see it used on here. It's jib, what do you expect? He no doubt uses the same language he sees on his ukipesque Facebook feed. |
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Post by jib on Oct 16, 2022 9:35:54 GMT
Yes, the fabled uplands. Milk and honey all round, particularly in the red wall. No more Eastern European competition for that minimum wage job. That's not why I voted for Brexit, it was a wide coalition. As my neighbour said on that fateful June day "this is the only chance we'll get to escape". Thank heavens we did. Shame my family and I won't get an easy chance to escape you and your idiot neighbour. Keep working on that superiority complex, it's taking you to unparalleled heights. |
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steve
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Post by steve on Oct 16, 2022 9:38:38 GMT
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Post by crossbat11 on Oct 16, 2022 9:39:51 GMT
Kuennsberg usually makes me blow my gasket at the best of times and, as I prepare to leave for Villa Park for what is likely to be a routine humiliation at the hands of Chelsea, maybe it wasn't an advisable thing to watch this morning. However, at the very end, there was a delicious moment to savour. Not quite a Julian Clary one, but enjoyable nonetheless.
The programme was execrable from the beginning. Matt Hancock on the panel and given about 60% of the airtime and bowled a series of half vollies by Kuennsberg. There was a trade union leader there too and John Allen, the Tesco boss. More of him later. The Unison TU leader was asked about Labour politicians on picket lines as if that is a salient issue amidst the current chaos.
Laura conducted a sycophantic and giggle strewn interview with a clearly relaxed Hunt. He came under little pressure. Not so John Reynolds the Labour spokesman a bit later. She barely looked him in the eye, scowled throughout and tried to skewer him on the what would you do better stuff throughout. Laura didn't like the answers. Gibbo and Davie impressed no doubt. All going well.
More teed up questions to Hancock. He thought Reynolds was talking blancmange. So did Laura and picked up on the term.
Finally the Tesco boss was asked about what he'd heard. He said, much to Laura's horror, that he didn't see much of any substance in a growth plan from the Tories but was liking what he was beginning to see from Labour on growth. A pin could be heard dropping in the studio. Shocked silence. Maybe Gibbo was in Laura's ear. Get him off air and back to a Hunt snippet. She obliged but damage done.
Labour making progress with their prawn cocktail offensive in the City and with business by the look of it
Laura was crestfallen. Exquisite stuff. Tesco boss off message. He won't be invited back any time soon.
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steve
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Post by steve on Oct 16, 2022 9:56:41 GMT
crossbat11 In common with 66 and a half million people in the UK I've managed to miss every episode of Tory breakfast story time. I understand Jo Lycett has been the highlight so far.
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alurqa
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Freiburg im Breisgau's flag
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Post by alurqa on Oct 16, 2022 10:04:09 GMT
Thanks to domjg for his usual unbiased response. Fine and dandy indeed. Undoubtedly my Lib Dem friend will be along soon. Looking at the figures which were attributed to a well known Davos Globalist Remoaner, I can conclude that there's little worthwhile trend. Only if you use dodgy stats and base your assumption on the exceptional 2015 that the Remoaner "facts" add up. GDP figures - $ trillions Year 2010 2011 2012 2013 2014 2015 2016 2017 2018 2019 2020 2021 Germany 3.4 3.75 3.53 3.73 3.89 3.36 3.47 3.69 3.98 3.89 3.85 4.22 UK 2.49 2.67 2.72 2.8 3.09 2.96 2.72 2.7 2.9 2.88 2.76 3.19 % 73.2 71.2 77.1 75.1 79.4 88.1 78.4 73.2 72.9 74.0 71.7 75.6 Source: World Bank | Year | 2010 | 2011 | 2012 | 2013 | 2014 | 2015 | 2016 | 2017 | 2018 | 2019 | 2020 | 2021 | | Germany | 3.4 | 3.75 | 3.53 | 3.73 | 3.89 | 3.36 | 3.47 | 3.69 | 3.98 | 3.89 | 3.85 | 4.22 | | UK | 2.49 | 2.67 | 2.72 | 2.8 | 3.09 | 2.96 | 2.72 | 2.7 | 2.9 | 2.88 | 2.76 | 3.19 | | % | 73.2 | 71.2 | 77.1 | 75.1 | 79.4 | 88.1 | 78.4 | 73.2 | 72.9 | 74.0 | 71.7 | 75.6 |
Opps. Sorry, I didn't notice the attachment.
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Post by jib on Oct 16, 2022 10:23:38 GMT
Oh please. My vote, my choice.Grow up and get over it. So own it. Stop trying to blame remainers for what has happened because you voted for it and would do so again if allowed a second vote now. Its no good saying everyone else in the world destroyed yuour dream of what brexit would look like. Its exactly because no other nation was going to miraculously give the Uk everything it wanted that brexit wasnt going to work. Could never work. It was all a pipe dream used simply to get con into power. Its no diffrent to Putin invading ukraine to make Russia great. Thats all gone horribly wrong too. Let me repeat. I voted Leave in the 2016 referendum - an advisory one - because I no longer believed in the direction of the EU on a number of issues. Immigration wasn't a major issue for me but I understood that leaving the EU would end freedom of movement for me as much as everyone else. I don't support the Tories and have little faith in their ability to deliver a sensible Brexit. However, having now had their extreme and disruptive Brexit, I'm hopeful a future Labour administration will mend bridges with the EU and achieve something more akin to Switzerland or Norway, but which respects the UKs position a the 5th / 6th largest economy on a global scale and brings back the ethos of the Single Market but a continued opt out from Federalism. Brexit is a process. |
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alurqa
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Freiburg im Breisgau's flag
Posts: 781
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Post by alurqa on Oct 16, 2022 10:31:14 GMT
... that leads back to the EU, hopefully both just as an associate so we can't fuck up their system, and destroys the Tory sustaining, FPTP system we have here, finally modernising the UK's political system so everyone can be included.
And if it does that then yes, it will have been worthwhile.
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Post by leftieliberal on Oct 16, 2022 10:44:39 GMT
If you read the article I referenced, you will see that his latest satellites are brighter than the earlier ones because he removed the shielding as it interfered with another facility he wanted to add. Well, I read the article, and did notice from it:
"In a presentation last month to the Federation of Astronomical Societies, David Goldstein, principal engineer at SpaceX, said the company was working on new technologies to mitigate the brightness of the second-generation Starlink satellites. That includes development of a “dielectric mirror sticker” to place on the satellites to reflect sunlight away from the Earth.
He said that approach would make the satellites 10 times dimmer than if they were coated with vantablack, one of the darkest commercially available paint. That paint also erodes in the space environment and has poor thermal performance.
"working on" means they haven't proven that it works. You seem to be very easily taken in by the sort of puff that all these people come out with at conferences. When I see peer=reviewed papers in professional journals then I will start to take their claims seriously. In the meantime they are continuing to launch satellites that are brighter than the ones with the shades. |
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Post by ladyvalerie on Oct 16, 2022 10:53:20 GMT
So own it. Stop trying to blame remainers for what has happened because you voted for it and would do so again if allowed a second vote now. Its no good saying everyone else in the world destroyed yuour dream of what brexit would look like. Its exactly because no other nation was going to miraculously give the Uk everything it wanted that brexit wasnt going to work. Could never work. It was all a pipe dream used simply to get con into power. Its no diffrent to Putin invading ukraine to make Russia great. Thats all gone horribly wrong too. Let me repeat. I voted Leave in the 2016 referendum - an advisory one - because I no longer believed in the direction of the EU on a number of issues. Immigration wasn't a major issue for me but I understood that leaving the EU would end freedom of movement for me as much as everyone else. I don't support the Tories and have little faith in their ability to deliver a sensible Brexit. However, having now had their extreme and disruptive Brexit, I'm hopeful a future Labour administration will mend bridges with the EU and achieve something more akin to Switzerland or Norway, but which respects the UKs position a the 5th / 6th largest economy on a global scale and brings back the ethos of the Single Market but a continued opt out from Federalism. Brexit is a process. I voted Remain because I didn’t know what Brexit would entail and I didn’t like or trust the RoC ultras who were screaming for it. I voted for the status quo.Better the devil you know. By your own admission, you didn’t know what you were voting for. ”Brexit is a process “ Yeah. A process exacerbating our economic decline and reducing our global standing. An apology from you, followed by a period of silence, would be most welcome. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 16, 2022 10:55:25 GMT
Shame my family and I won't get an easy chance to escape you and your idiot neighbour. I thought you were moving to the Republic of Ireland ? |
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Post by alec on Oct 16, 2022 11:18:12 GMT
crossbat11 - the LK show intervention by Tesco boss wasn't only noticed by you - "Some companies privately suggesting UK “uninvestible” with macro/ currency stability/ considerable lurches in policy/personnel doubts Risk Govt now gets back 6 years squeezing/ ignoring certain types of business, with large rate of interest..." The trouble with aggressive behaviour, as the Conservatives undertook with Brexit, as well as more generally against any organisation of individual who failed to back their lines, is that it only has any effect while those organisations think you have power. Now, as we see power draining from the Conservatives, probably - if the opinion polls are to be believed - for a decade or more, those who were once forced to toe the government line in return for favours now no longer give a toss. Worse, because of their treatment, they now feel actively happy to damage the party. It's going to be great.
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Post by robbiealive on Oct 16, 2022 11:20:01 GMT
I really ought to write this post with the same cadence as Auden's Night Mail poem. Train travelling as I am, but I lack the great man's poetic gifts. Pure prose instead, alas. As another Tory psychodrama unfolds and we start to examine more runners and riders being saddled or unsaddled in this increasingly deranged political party, can't someone, anyone, please make the story about something else? Twelve years of these largely malign fools and still we obsess about them, walk in their shoes and devise plotlines where they rebound and triumph to rule us all again. The story should instead be about our benighted country and what can be done to save it and maybe revive it. That really has nothing to do with Toryism. Please, someone somewhere seize that narrative. I'm done with Liz's, Penny's, Jeremy's and Rishis. I weep for my country not the Tory Party. They're now part of the problem not the solution. Maybe they always were. I bought Night Mail at some expence years ago, but is now available free courtesy of the BFI. At least I got the special bits & the sequel. (Not the Great Train Robbery, same train going the other way). I always liked its everydayness, eg: In the farm she passes no one wakes,
But a jug in a bedroom gently shakes.
Auden & Isherwood were in America when WW2 started: and stayed there. Waugh satirised the "pansy poets" as Parsnip & Pimpernel in his Put Out More Flags.
Many posters will share yr Cri De Coeur about narratives. But it is hard to shrug off the last 12 years, esp the last 6.5! This country's interests were sadly neglected in the 3 years of Brexitana which followed the Ref: v largely the hapless Tories' fault, but none of the parties emerged with much credit. The voters, sick of the interminable, self-indulgent arcane proceduralism of Parliamentary politics, fell for Johnson's comic-book slogan. 1.5 years of the Pandemic followed & then the last year since the Patterson debacle of the most inept central government that our benighted country has endured in modern times. The pygmy politicians of the Brexit party. They have no rival! Along came Truss, the self-styled Great Disruptor. The Tory members warmed to this, safe in the knowledge they would be the last to suffer. But the last thing the public wanted was more disruption. Evidence? The fact that the Labour lead, while volatile, increased the more people saw of Truss & she was denied a bounce. Hers were the politics of chaos. Corbyn tried the same thing in 2019. Throw everything up in the air & see what happens. What happened to Truss was chaos! Jib, the most persistent & indeed pugnacious voice of Brexit, tells us it was bound to be disruptive (not of course revealed in the EU Ref campaign) but has never really explained to what end. My pennyworth on whether Truss can survive? Hunt is now Richelieu to her Louis XIII, Olivares to Philip IV, Pombal to Joseph I. But those Iberian monarchs never faced PMQs & it is hard to see how she could survive Starmer's taunts given her rhetoric: unless he devises a way of keeping her on the rack for party advantage. The only reason for not dumping her now is to avoid more bloodshed & ridicule in another leadership campaign and the remote possibility of a GE. |
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Post by jib on Oct 16, 2022 11:25:33 GMT
Let me repeat. I voted Leave in the 2016 referendum - an advisory one - because I no longer believed in the direction of the EU on a number of issues. Immigration wasn't a major issue for me but I understood that leaving the EU would end freedom of movement for me as much as everyone else. I don't support the Tories and have little faith in their ability to deliver a sensible Brexit. However, having now had their extreme and disruptive Brexit, I'm hopeful a future Labour administration will mend bridges with the EU and achieve something more akin to Switzerland or Norway, but which respects the UKs position a the 5th / 6th largest economy on a global scale and brings back the ethos of the Single Market but a continued opt out from Federalism. Brexit is a process. I voted Remain because I didn’t know what Brexit would entail and I didn’t like or trust the RoC ultras who were screaming for it. I voted for the status quo.Better the devil you know. By your own admission, you didn’t know what you were voting for. ”Brexit is a process “ Yeah. A process exacerbating our economic decline and reducing our global standing. An apology from you, followed by a period of silence, would be most welcome. I owe no one an apology, so you won't be getting one. My views are my own, and I'm perfectly entitled to them. If you can't deal with that, tough! (And don't frequent forums where views other than your own are the order of the day!) |
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Post by alec on Oct 16, 2022 11:26:30 GMT
Just a minor not of caution about ebola. This has now hit Kampala, capital of Ugandan, which is visited by around 15,000 UK visitors a year. The strain of ebola is rare, this time with no vaccine, 27% of cases are asymptomatic, and while you are not infectious until symptomatic, the early 'dry' symptoms are difficult to distinguish from many other normal infections. Travel restrictions would be nice to see.
Forgot to mention; perhaps 50% case fatality rate, so something to take very seriously.
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Post by jayblanc on Oct 16, 2022 11:37:20 GMT
Shocked that Coffey admitting to breaking the law in a dangerous way isn't the big story at the moment, and that she appears to be getting away with it. Just disappears into the omnishambles of this government.
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Post by mercian on Oct 16, 2022 11:42:18 GMT
But I don't know what metric Carney was thinking of as he wasn't specific, but I think it's fairly safe to assume that he does in fact, know what he is talking about when it comes to economic numbers. He needs to sharpen up his act and say exactly what he means rather than go headline hunting. |
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Post by robbiealive on Oct 16, 2022 11:48:37 GMT
Yes, the fabled uplands. Milk and honey all round, particularly in the red wall. No more Eastern European competition for that minimum wage job. That's not why I voted for Brexit, it was a wide coalition. As my neighbour said on that fateful June day "this is the only chance we'll get to escape". Thank heavens we did. Shame my family and I won't get an easy chance to escape you and your idiot neighbour. You do take Brexit v hard. I will admit that as an under-taxed, benefit-laden, Labour-Manchester-dwelling, moderately properous, retiree I was not much much affected by Covid (tho I did have two mild doses & much worse see friends suffering v badly from Long Covid, a distressing outcome, which some on here seem eager to play down, tho what they have to gain from this is puzzling) & can survive the Tories' attempts to trash the economy. Your circumstances may be v different. But it has happended. And we can only hope that the Tories are ousted at the next GE and we can begin to re-build our relations with Europe. |
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Post by mercian on Oct 16, 2022 11:49:46 GMT
jib Surely those GDP comparisons with Germany are demonstrating that you can't draw conclusions yet on the long term impact of Brexit on the UK's economy. The German economy has performed better than ours for a very long time and continues to do so. They have generated far more wealth than we have over decades. In terms of GDP per head of population, they are ahead. Ireland is too now, apparently. The pandemic aftershocks are still in play and we now have an energy price shock to contend with. We are not in normal times and haven't been since 2020, the year we realistically exited the EU. We were still enjoying its benefits until then. It may be some years yet before the effects of Brexit can be examined without convenient camouflage. However, there are financial numbers suggesting that of all the G8 economies we've recovered the most anaemically post pandemic. Brexit behind that or just poor domestic economic management? Sunak or Brexit? Too early to tell. A binary comparison between two economies is not a very good way of determining whether we're benefitting from exiting the EU. I still think that TOH's estimate that it would be too early to tell the long-term effects of Brexit until 2030 is reasonable (and he said that before it took us 4 years to actually leave I think). |
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Post by davwel on Oct 16, 2022 11:52:19 GMT
For JiB
Just one more problem that Brexit has caused: we botanists are having problems exchanging plant specimens with EU botanists. Parcels not getting through or delayed, checks on contents for diseases, attempts at imposing customs duties.
So science impeded.
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pjw1961
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Government, even in its best state, is but a necessary evil; in its worst state, an intolerable one.
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Post by pjw1961 on Oct 16, 2022 12:03:55 GMT
Shocked that Coffey admitting to breaking the law in a dangerous way isn't the big story at the moment, and that she appears to be getting away with it. Just disappears into the omnishambles of this government. Not sure why you're shocked; shes only the SoS for Health! If it had been a Labour politician the Tory press would have plastered the story everywhere and Starmer would have withdrawn the whip by now. Of course the real reason for her highly dangerous suggestion of freely available over the counter anti-biotics was to disguise the massive shortage of GP appointments. A better solution would be to increase the programme of providing properly trained prescribing nurses and prescribing pharmacists so as to increase the number of people able to prescribe drugs safely. This needs investment in training of course, and so costs money. |
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Post by mandolinist on Oct 16, 2022 12:07:16 GMT
I would very much like to move the conversation on from Brexit. . .again. Not because it is unimportant, but because it just gets so unplaesant and no one admits to any change of view or position. So, to poke a different hornets nest, does anyone else agree with me that Justin Welby is the worst Archbishop of Canterbury for a long time? In one sense, as an atheist I have no skin in this at all, but he holds a constitutional position in the established church and hence has political responsiblities. He always seems to be late with comments, www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2022/oct/16/archbishop-of-canterbury-criticises-tax-cuts-for-the-rich, or missing when needed, what do others think? |
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Post by alec on Oct 16, 2022 12:13:00 GMT
mandolinist - "..as an atheist I have no skin in this at all,..." I think, in this context, rather than "skin" it must be "soul"?
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Post by mandolinist on Oct 16, 2022 12:15:21 GMT
mandolinist - "..as an atheist I have no skin in this at all,..." I think, in this context, rather than "skin" it must be "soul"? Oh all right clever clogs.  |
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Post by RAF on Oct 16, 2022 12:18:24 GMT
Shocked that Coffey admitting to breaking the law in a dangerous way isn't the big story at the moment, and that she appears to be getting away with it. Just disappears into the omnishambles of this government. This Tory government (especially since the extremely long deferential leash given to the aristocrat Boris) can do these things without consequence. |
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steve
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Post by steve on Oct 16, 2022 12:18:28 GMT
The focus has understandably been on the luddite neo liberal brexitanian prime minister and her hapless first choice as chancellor. To such an extent that the unremitting awfulness of her cabinet is to some degree missed Therese Coffey is a prime example of how shit the rest are. youtu.be/QPseBGgH1Ik |
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Post by RAF on Oct 16, 2022 12:22:41 GMT
I would very much like to move the conversation on from Brexit. . .again. Not because it is unimportant, but because it just gets so unplaesant and no one admits to any change of view or position. So, to poke a different hornets nest, does anyone else agree with me that Justin Welby is the worst Archbishop of Canterbury for a long time? In one sense, as an atheist I have no skin in this at all, but he holds a constitutional position in the established church and hence has political responsiblities. He always seems to be late with comments, www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2022/oct/16/archbishop-of-canterbury-criticises-tax-cuts-for-the-rich, or missing when needed, what do others think? Ironic really when you consider the history (across all religions) of religions leaders being persecuted for verbally challenging the ruling political authorities. |
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steve
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Post by steve on Oct 16, 2022 12:22:48 GMT
More bitter remainders for our resident head case to chastise. In this instant it's that well know bastion of remainer wokeness the Telegraph youtu.be/ntyPGPaJueI |
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