oldnat
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Extremist - Undermining the UK state and its institutions
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Post by oldnat on Oct 2, 2022 18:39:42 GMT
davwel
While driving to Glasgow this morning to do a spot of IGMDTDI (1) I heard your MP saying that he agreed with Gove and that every Tory MP would have to quiz the leadership about their plans, and then decide whether to support them or not. Up till now, he's been a strong loyalist, so that sounds significant as to the extent of the "rebellion" (ie which will be the winning side for me to join?).
[1] A variation of DIY popular with daughters (even 50 year old ones!) "I'll Get My Dad To Do It".
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 2, 2022 18:42:42 GMT
colin - "These two idiots have completely lost the credit which a multi million pound intervention on fuel bills should have brought them." Oh yes! That one. The one where they agreed to hand tens, possibly hundred of billions of pounds of our taxes to energy companies, completely unfunded, refusing point blank to instigate a windfall profits tax against those same companies making huge and unwarranted profits. That policy alone would have been very hard for them, in a sensible world. I disagree. Two years help vs Labour's six months. Plus an offer for business. Hard pressed families would not be complaining that the government borrowed to help them for two years. It certainly wouldn't have knocked 10 to 20 points of their VI. Income Tax was not mentioned by Truss in the contest. It was unneccessary. A piece of Kwarteng showmanship an arrogance. No effort at all was expended on explaining the rational for the bankers' bonus policy. |
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oldnat
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Extremist - Undermining the UK state and its institutions
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Post by oldnat on Oct 2, 2022 18:47:35 GMT
Tories in grovel mode?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 2, 2022 18:52:50 GMT
it might have been popular with the public had it not been for the folly of those aspects that blatantly favoured the rich. The public liked the rest of it. Absolutely. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 2, 2022 19:12:01 GMT
I don’t think Truss comes across at all well quite apart from the iffy policies
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Post by davwel on Oct 2, 2022 19:31:53 GMT
davwel
While driving to Glasgow this morning to do a spot of IGMDTDI (1) I heard your MP saying that he agreed with Gove and that every Tory MP would have to quiz the leadership about their plans, and then decide whether to support them or not. Up till now, he's been a strong loyalist, so that sounds significant as to the extent of the "rebellion" (ie which will be the winning side for me to join?).
[1] A variation of DIY popular with daughters (even 50 year old ones!) "I'll Get My Dad To Do It". I suspect Andrew Bowie has been wavering for some months now - he certainly gave up on Johnson. And we have Tory MSPs highly scathing on Truss. I have been side-lined on slavery, its abolition, and black musicians. There appears to be a big reawakening of interest all of a sudden. Our church presbytery wanting to know of links of members/heritors/spending-on-buildings. Then Radio 3 just now having a doc on a Black Brass Band touring England for 6 months in 1837-1838 and new Queen Vic perhaps presenting them with a keyed bugle. But who payed for this (1) and what did they play, so I wouldn`t recommend others to listen to a shallow programme that had speakers talking above snippets of music every 10-15 seconds. We have a tower on a popular hill near Banchory that appears to have been financed by the UK Gov paying enormous sums to our local landowners who had given up their West Indian slaves. So it`s something else for Bowie to think about besides UK`s tallest windfarm proposed for 4 miles in the other direction. I believe a simple plaque on the tower would suffice. 1. the tour I mean, not the bugle |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 2, 2022 19:31:57 GMT
I don’t think Truss comes across at all well quite apart from the iffy policies I think once voters see a politician in a certain light - Mlliband, May and now Truss it’s not recoverable - they just see them as losers |
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Post by mercian on Oct 2, 2022 19:37:10 GMT
mercian It was so " simmering" that European union membership never featured in the top 10 concerns in polling until 2014 When your favoured party ( UKIP not the Tories) and their xenophobic media mouthpieces blatantly lied about both freedom of movement and the imminent entry of Turkey into the European union. In 2004 UKIP got 12 MEPs and over 2.5million votes in the EU elections. In 2009 they got 13 seats and more votes than any other party except the Tories. That's real elections, not polls, and that's why the Tories were scared. |
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Post by leftieliberal on Oct 2, 2022 19:48:44 GMT
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pjw1961
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Government, even in its best state, is but a necessary evil; in its worst state, an intolerable one.
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Post by pjw1961 on Oct 2, 2022 20:13:03 GMT
The polls have just closed in the Brazilian presidential election and it looks possible Lula da Silva might win outright in the first round. I have this horrible feeling that the big news story might then be Bolsonaro's attempted coup. Fingers crossed it doesn't happen or if it does then it fails dismally.
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Post by hireton on Oct 2, 2022 20:19:57 GMT
It seems the Russian positions around Kherson are under severe pressure and possibly collapsing at some points:
Ukrainian forces are also making advances in the north pushing on from Lyman.
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Post by charles on Oct 2, 2022 20:21:12 GMT
It seems to me that the government should aim to ensure wages and benefits at the lower end of the scale more or less keep pace with inflation. Not to do so is in my view morally wrong, socially divisive and liable to lead to prolonged and damaging strikes and quite possibly a recession as well. To do so, would mean rerunning the spending reviews and wrecking any hope the Tories have of making their spending plans add up. So my questions are: a) from the point of view of the country should Labour adopt this as an aim? b) should they do it from point of view of their own electoral interests?
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Post by Deleted on Oct 2, 2022 20:27:52 GMT
charlesYes, definitely. The least well off need to be looked after.
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Post by mercian on Oct 2, 2022 20:28:38 GMT
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Post by caroline on Oct 2, 2022 20:33:08 GMT
Charles. Yes to both questions. After the current fiasco I think the country may be more willing to accept the need for taxes to go up to pay for essential public services but I also think more people are generally worried about the extremes of poverty some people in this country are experiencing. Labour should aim for a minimum wage of £15 an hour. The slogan should be we want to cut the number of people on benefits.
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Post by jib on Oct 2, 2022 20:33:21 GMT
I don’t think Truss comes across at all well quite apart from the iffy policies I think once voters see a politician in a certain light - Mlliband, May and now Truss it’s not recoverable - they just see them as losers 2/3 rds of the Tory MPs didn't support her either. Nevertheless, it seems vacuous rhetoric can do wonders with party members. |
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oldnat
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Extremist - Undermining the UK state and its institutions
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Post by oldnat on Oct 2, 2022 20:42:26 GMT
I think once voters see a politician in a certain light - Mlliband, May and now Truss it’s not recoverable - they just see them as losers 2/3 rds of the Tory MPs didn't support her either. Nevertheless, it seems vacuous rhetoric can do wonders with party members. |
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Post by davem on Oct 2, 2022 20:46:19 GMT
I see that this petition has already got over 421k signatures in a couple of days. It will obviously pass half a million during the conference. I know it won’t change anything but it will be embarrassing. petition.parliament.uk/petitions/619781 |
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oldnat
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Extremist - Undermining the UK state and its institutions
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Post by oldnat on Oct 2, 2022 20:50:51 GMT
I see that this petition has already got over 421k signatures in a couple of days. It will obviously pass half a million during the conference. I know it won’t change anything but it will be embarrassing. petition.parliament.uk/petitions/619781 |
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Danny
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Post by Danny on Oct 2, 2022 21:04:21 GMT
It seems the Russian positions around Kherson are under severe pressure and possibly collapsing at some points: Ukrainian forces are also making advances in the north pushing on from Lyman. Looking at your link,I see there is one post saying 500 newly mobilised troops refused orders to fight and simply surrendered. Mobilisation might not help Putin much if he hands out arms to his new troops, and they then just hand them over to Ukraine. |
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Post by mercian on Oct 2, 2022 21:09:17 GMT
2/3 rds of the Tory MPs didn't support her either. Nevertheless, it seems vacuous rhetoric can do wonders with party members. I thought she did! |
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domjg
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Post by domjg on Oct 2, 2022 21:10:37 GMT
2/3 rds of the Tory MPs didn't support her either. Nevertheless, it seems vacuous rhetoric can do wonders with party members. It's quite a funky tune actually. We're so used to foreign tongues being parodied as gobbledegook, ie the Fast show's Julio Giordio and Scorchio and the Minion's pseudo Romance language mashup so it's interesting to see our own native tongue so treated, even if it is the American version. A necessary reminder to some perhaps that it's just another language like any other with it's own weird sounds and patterns. |
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Post by davem on Oct 2, 2022 21:11:16 GMT
I see that this petition has already got over 421k signatures in a couple of days. It will obviously pass half a million during the conference. I know it won’t change anything but it will be embarrassing. petition.parliament.uk/petitions/619781No it has not, it is more about the optics and having so many people signing only builds the pressure on Truss. |
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Post by caroline on Oct 2, 2022 21:12:59 GMT
Anecdote .....A friend came over for supper this evening. She lives in a small 2 bedroom housing association maisonette. The other half of the house is occupied by a single woman with a 19 year old son. A few months ago this womans eldest son came to live with her following a relationship breakup. The woman gave up her bedroom for her son and slept on the sofa in the living room. Last weekend her married daughter and the daughters husband were evicted from their rented home and turned up needing accommodation. There are now 5 (large) adults living in a very small 2 bedroom maisonette. The married couple are sleeping in the shed in the garden but they all share a mildrew ridden bathroom, a poorly ventilated kitchen and a tiny living room.
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Post by mercian on Oct 2, 2022 21:18:28 GMT
carolineWhat a shame the workhouses closed down.😁 [banter]
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Post by caroline on Oct 2, 2022 21:23:41 GMT
mercian if Jacob Rees Mogg gets his way they will be back soon.
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domjg
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Post by domjg on Oct 2, 2022 21:25:58 GMT
Looked at the BBC news site, expecting it to be a recognizable highly edited (censored) mash of reports on the Tory conference. Pleasantly surprised to see them not holding back on giving prominence to the idea that Truss is toast. Et tu Tim?..
Must be game over.
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oldnat
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Post by oldnat on Oct 2, 2022 21:28:28 GMT
Good! Police Scotland restoring some balance.
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Post by mandolinist on Oct 2, 2022 21:29:25 GMT
Anecdote .....A friend came over for supper this evening. She lives in a small 2 bedroom housing association maisonette. The other half of the house is occupied by a single woman with a 19 year old son. A few months ago this womans eldest son came to live with her following a relationship breakup. The woman gave up her bedroom for her son and slept on the sofa in the living room. Last weekend her married daughter and the daughters husband were evicted from their rented home and turned up needing accommodation. There are now 5 (large) adults living in a very small 2 bedroom maisonette. The married couple are sleeping in the shed in the garden but they all share a mildrew ridden bathroom, a poorly ventilated kitchen and a tiny living room. It is so far from the promise of a property owning democracy isn't it. I am very sorry to say that it will get worse, what safety net we had is now so threadbare that it holds almost no one. A very large proportion of society are one adverse event away from homelessness, it is all so dispiriting and saddening. |
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Post by davwel on Oct 2, 2022 21:29:32 GMT
I heard Truss claiming the presentation of the mini-budget was what she and Kwarteng did badly, not that the policies were wrong or not popular.
This should have been challenged by the interviewer/reporter. Looking at the graph of the pound/dollar delay trend, it is clear the sharp decline ran for several days before the actual Friday statement by Kwarteng.
So it was worry about all the unfunded tax cuts, and unfair distribution of the big gains, that caused the damage, not the failure to spell them out clearly. Indeed Trust/Kwarteng didn`t want them analysed.
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