|
|
Post by Mark on Oct 1, 2022 10:57:57 GMT
890 guests on line in the last 24 hours. The most I can remember, certainly of late, I think. People obviously beating a path to UKPR2's door to seek out the musings of the cognoscenti in these febrile times. How do they find it? A bit behind ATM, It's been busy the last few day, plus, had a 4 hour phone catchup with an old friend last night. Catching up this morning.... In answer to 'how do they find us?', we don't seem to be prominant on Google, but are (at least my end) in the first couple of results on DuckDuckGo (for those who don't know, it's similar to Google but without the tracking/data mining etc). Plus, quite a few people publicised us on the final thread on UKPR1 (a belated thank you to all those that did  ). I'm aware also of a few word of mouth shares and of shares on a few FB groups etc. We have regularly had 400-500 guests at peak times and I'm sure that at least a portion of the reach that UKPR1 had has helped as well. |
|
steve
Member
Posts: 12,635
|
Post by steve on Oct 1, 2022 10:58:11 GMT
|
|
steve
Member
Posts: 12,635
|
Post by steve on Oct 1, 2022 10:59:14 GMT
alec Somehow I don't think they got the message that they are now in Russia.
|
|
|
|
Post by davwel on Oct 1, 2022 11:01:02 GMT
re the Teesport dredging-up of damaging toxic pollutants:
I wonder if the announcement in our latest CEH weekly news, of a fairly hefty cash injection this week to improve our testing of pollutants in fresh water and sea water is perhaps related.
|
|
pjw1961
Member
Government, even in its best state, is but a necessary evil; in its worst state, an intolerable one.
Posts: 8,572
|
Post by pjw1961 on Oct 1, 2022 11:13:41 GMT
Polling leads, swing-back and changes of government. I am going to put this in a series of posts as there is quite a bit I want to say. This first one is the boring technical bit, but I know there are a few people will want to know. Also some thoughts on the 1987-92 parliament where I have had an epiphany. Whenever I say 'average', I am referring to the mean. Sources of polls: for 1945 to 1997 I am using the monthly Gallup polls published in the book "Twentieth-century British Political Facts 1900-2000" by David Butler and Gareth Butler, mainly for convenience as they are readily available to me. From 1997 onward I have used all polling companies polls as published on Wikipedia. I average them on a monthly basis (and it took ages, hence I have no desire to do the same pre-97!). A recent exception is I now exclude Opinium and Kantar as there are doing something different which doesn't fit with the point I am seeking to investigate. I only look at the months where the opposition is leading the government of the day, as these seem the indicator of potential change, but I do also keep the stats for how many months the opposition are leading for each parliament. In terms of whether the government or the opposition 'win' the following general election my criterion is who is the PM and forms the government. I don't worry about the size of the victory. For example 2010 counts as a win for the opposition and change of government, 2017 as a win for the government with no change. I would hope that is uncontroversial! 1987-92 - For sometime this was the only anomaly in my theory that the average size of the opposition lead was a historically flawless indicator of whether or not there would be a change of government. On the figures for this parliament Labour should have won in 1992. It was a bit of a puzzle. The breakthrough came when sotonsaint asked the other day about Kinnock's poll leads. Looking at the Wikipedia figures it was instantly apparent that the 1987-92 parliament was actually two parliaments in polling terms, in a way that I can assure you is unique. 1987-90 against Thatcher Labour built up large leads and on my model would have been on track to form the next government, but as soon as she is replaced by Major there is a huge shift. In fact the polling performance of Kinnock v Major is the worst for any opposition leader, other than Jeremy Corbyn. Based on that the 1992 Tory win ceases to be a surprise and become a certainty. Therefore I have now split 1987-92 into two parts in my tables of outcome to reflect this. If anyone doesn't believe me on the impact of the change from Thatcher to Major, have a look at the polling figures before and after November 1990 on the link below (it is the size of the leads you need to look for, not the amount of red ink). It was a real game changer. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opinion_polling_for_the_1992_United_Kingdom_general_election
|
|
|
|
Post by robbiealive on Oct 1, 2022 11:13:44 GMT
The right-wing logic of Brexit unfolds. Slash the State, Strangle Public Services, Screw the Poor, Stock the Larders of the Rich, Stifle Protest, Smash Union Power, Stuff the Environment, Strife with the EU.
So utterly predictable: Amd the Brexiteers: the poor, innocent sacrificial lambs who baahed Take Back Control, Bleat, Make Our Own Laws, Bleat, reclaim our Sovereignty, bleat.
|
|
graham
Member
Posts: 3,762
Member is Online
|
Post by graham on Oct 1, 2022 11:18:54 GMT
How likely is that? The proposed Income Tax changes do not apply until April 2023 - just 18 months before the latest likely election date. Moreover four years of economic recovery post the ERM crisis in Autumn 1992 did little to boost Tory fortunes in May 1997. Kwarteng's budget seems broadly a keynsian stimulus. Classic keynes- govenment borrows to boost growth during a recession. People are arguing about the details of how the borrowing is being spent and whether it is affordable at all, but keynes argued fundamentally it doesnt matter who gets it, so long as government spends. So the budget would be expected to mitigate the current near recession.
Meanwhile, the world economy is likely to recover before the next election and drag up the Uk economy. Absolutely nothing to do with what the Uk government does. World events have been proven to have more influence on the UK economy than anything the UK government can do. The state of the UK economy over time has correlated more with the state of the world economy than with any change in uk financial policy.
Kwarteng's claims about trickle down are total nonsense, but that doesnt really matter. The point is, he claims to have a plan which will restore the UK economy, and then in a years time it starts to recover. He proves he is a genius. He proves he should be re-elected to carry out more of his economic magic. In 1992 the government had to leave the erm because it spent a fortune trying to defend the peg and failed. Its plan was to join erm, and then it was proven by outcome their plan failed. Thats the exact opposite of what Kwarteng is trying to do. He is currently doing something controversial (equivalent to joining erm). Then he hopes that at some point in the next 1-2 years the economy will be looking up and they can call a snap election. Claiming he ended the recession by his controversial action.
given current polling it's quite possible that they might think they have nothing to lose by having the whip removed Have you noticed how over the last 5 years or so con have played the part of their own opposition? Over Brexit, over covid and now over tax changes which are unpopular? Best keep labour entirely out of the loop.
But the point is that over 4 years of economic growth failed to help the Tories at the 1997 election. Why is 18 months of such growth - if it materialises - likely to benefit them next year and in 2024? Moreover, the signs now point to Government spending cuts being announced which will offset any Keynesian expansionary impact which might have flowed from the Income Tax cuts.The latter anyway is to be concentrated on higher income groups who are far less likely to spend any additional disposable income - much of it will be saved. |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Oct 1, 2022 11:20:37 GMT
A bit behind ATM, It's been busy the last few day, plus, had a 4 hour phone catchup with an old friend last night. Catching up this morning.... In answer to 'how do they find us?', we don't seem to be prominant on Google, but are (at least my end) in the first couple of results on DuckDuckGo (for those who don't know, it's similar to Google but without the tracking/data mining etc). Plus, quite a few people publicised us on the final thread on UKPR1 (a belated thank you to all those that did ). I'm aware also of a few word of mouth shares and of shares on a few FB groups etc. We have regularly had 400-500 guests at peak times and I'm sure that at least a portion of the reach that UKPR1 had has helped as well. I have occasionally inadvertently deleted UKPR2 from my tablet, (surprisingly easily done when you're as ham-fisted as me). I have been able to recover it by googling 'proboards' and having a bit of a root around for UKPollingReport2 on that. Not exactly incisive, I know, but it worked for me. |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Oct 1, 2022 11:35:43 GMT
I don't take anything he writes seriously anymore, it's just amusing now. Keep that head in the sand eh, wish away that coalition all you want, but it wouldn't have happened without the Lib Dems. Yawn 🥱 |
|
pjw1961
Member
Government, even in its best state, is but a necessary evil; in its worst state, an intolerable one.
Posts: 8,572
|
Post by pjw1961 on Oct 1, 2022 11:45:30 GMT
Polling leads, swing-back and changes of government. Parliaments ranked by size of opposition lead in the months they lead + outcome of subsequent GE. Average Winning Govt Opp. Govt Peak Lead Winner margin Recovery Peak Recovery date 1992-97 25.8 Opposition 12.5 13.3 40.5 28 Dec-94 1966-70 12.9 Opposition 3.3 9.6 28.0 24.7 May-68 1950-51 10.9 Opposition -0.8 11.7 15.0 15.8 Mar-51 2005-10 10.0 Opposition 7.1 2.9 28.0 20.9 Sep-08 1959-64 9.3 Opposition 0.7 8.6 20.0 19.3 Jun-63 O74-79 8.9 Opposition 7 2.9 25.0 18 Nov-76 1970-F74 7.9 Opposition -0.7 8.6 22.0 22.7 Jul-71 2019- 7.4 2010-15 6.1 Govt -6.4 12.5 16.0 22.4 Sep-12 1955-59 6.1 Govt -5.6 11.7 19.0 24.6 Sep-57 1979-83 6.0 Govt -14.8 20.8 12.0 26.8 Mar-80 1983-87 5.4 Govt -11.5 16.9 16.0 27.5 Aug-85 F74-O74 5.0 Govt -3.3 8.3 5.0 8.3 Aug-74 1964-66 4.2 Govt -6.1 10.3 8.0 14.1 Aug-65 1945-50 4.6 Govt -2.7 7.3 12.5 15.2 Nov-47 1951-55 4.4 Govt -3.3 7.7 10.0 13.3 Jul-52 2001-05 2.7 Govt -2.8 5.5 4.0 6.8 May-04 2017-19 2.4 Govt -11.5 13.9 10.0 21.5 Apr-19 1990-92 Major 1.7 Govt -7.5 9.2 3.0 10.5 Jun-91 2015-17 Nil Govt -2.3 Opp win avg 8.2 21.3 Govt win avg 11.3 17.4 All avg 10.1 18.9 1987-92 Full parl. 8.8 Govt -7.5 16.3 |
|
steve
Member
Posts: 12,635
|
Post by steve on Oct 1, 2022 11:59:16 GMT
Simon Clarke, the levelling up minister and a key Liz Truss ally, has told the Times that the market chaos that followed the government’s tax cutting mini-budget would pass and warned that Britain should prepare for a new age of austerity.
He also said the prime minister was “enjoying having the chance” to enact policies that “she believes is right”.
Despite the turmoil in financial markets, Clarke said that Truss was “astonishingly resilient” and urged the government to channel the spirit of Margaret Thatcher to push ahead with their vision.
Clarke said
If I was to describe one word for Liz at the moment, it is purposeful. She knew – and this was certainly something we discussed during the summer – that this would not be a comfortable process. "
---
The Public school and Oxford educated and future ex mp for Middlesbrough South thinks a two word description of Truss is " astonishingly resilient "
Perhaps contributors might like to consider their own two word description of our new dear leader.
I'll start off with " Certifiably Insane "
|
|
pjw1961
Member
Government, even in its best state, is but a necessary evil; in its worst state, an intolerable one.
Posts: 8,572
|
Post by pjw1961 on Oct 1, 2022 12:03:06 GMT
Polling leads, swing-back and changes of government. With reference to the 2019 to date figure in the above table. Shown as 7.4, it is of course currently going up. The average Labour lead in September was 14.1%, up from 8.9% in August. Therefore we cannot yet say where the final figure will settle although it seems like to continue to increase for at least the next few months at least. Finally, just to demonstrate it is size of leads rather than duration that is the best indicator: Months Total in lead Months % Winner 1992-97 57 60 95.0% Opposition 1970-F74 37 44 84.1% Opposition 2010-15 49 60 81.7% Govt 1966-70 38 51 74.5% Opposition 2005-10 43 60 71.7% Opposition 1979-83 31 48 64.6% Govt 1959-64 37 60 61.7% Opposition 1955-59 32 52 61.5% Govt O74-79 33 55 60.0% Opposition 1951-55 23 43 53.5% Govt 1950-51 10 20 50.0% Opposition 1983-87 21 48 43.8% Govt 1945-50 24 56 42.9% Govt 1987-92 24 58 41.4% Govt 2019- 10 33 30.3% 1964-66 4 18 22.2% Govt F74-O74 1 7 14.3% Govt 2001-05 3 47 6.4% Govt 1997-2001 1 49 2.0% Govt 2015-17 0 25 0.0% Govt 1987-90 Thatcher 20 40 50.0% 1990-92 Major 3 18 16.7% Govt |
|
steve
Member
Posts: 12,635
|
Post by steve on Oct 1, 2022 12:04:02 GMT
3000 posts.
I need to get out more
|
|
steve
Member
Posts: 12,635
|
Post by steve on Oct 1, 2022 12:07:21 GMT
Perhaps not the wisest move to describe Birmingham, the host city for this year’s Tory party conference, as a “dump”.
But that is what Daniel Grainger, the chair of the Young Conservative Network, did on Twitter before his post was swiftly deleted after a rebuke from the mayor of the West Midlands, Andy Street.
In an follow up Twitter post, Grainger said:
My tweet in relation to Birmingham was not about the city or its people. I’ve always enjoyed my visits to your city, but this morning I was greeted by an individual who threatened me with a mugging"
Be fair Daniel your beloved party wants to mug us all!
|
|
pjw1961
Member
Government, even in its best state, is but a necessary evil; in its worst state, an intolerable one.
Posts: 8,572
|
Post by pjw1961 on Oct 1, 2022 12:07:49 GMT
I hope all that made some sense, but happy to respond to queries. The bottom line is that the Labour leads over the Conservatives are rapidly heading into the territory where on historical precedent the opposition forms the government after the next GE.
|
|
graham
Member
Posts: 3,762
Member is Online
|
Post by graham on Oct 1, 2022 12:10:10 GMT
Polling leads, swing-back and changes of government. Parliaments ranked by size of opposition lead in the months they lead + outcome of subsequent GE. Average Winning Govt Opp. Govt Peak Lead Winner margin Recovery Peak Recovery date 1992-97 25.8 Opposition 12.5 13.3 40.5 28 Dec-94 1966-70 12.9 Opposition 3.3 9.6 28.0 24.7 May-68 1950-51 10.9 Opposition -0.8 11.7 15.0 15.8 Mar-51 2005-10 10.0 Opposition 7.1 2.9 28.0 20.9 Sep-08 1959-64 9.3 Opposition 0.7 8.6 20.0 19.3 Jun-63 O74-79 8.9 Opposition 7 2.9 25.0 18 Nov-76 1970-F74 7.9 Opposition -0.7 8.6 22.0 22.7 Jul-71 2019- 7.4 2010-15 6.1 Govt -6.4 12.5 16.0 22.4 Sep-12 1955-59 6.1 Govt -5.6 11.7 19.0 24.6 Sep-57 1979-83 6.0 Govt -14.8 20.8 12.0 26.8 Mar-80 1983-87 5.4 Govt -11.5 16.9 16.0 27.5 Aug-85 F74-O74 5.0 Govt -3.3 8.3 5.0 8.3 Aug-74 1964-66 4.2 Govt -6.1 10.3 8.0 14.1 Aug-65 1945-50 4.6 Govt -2.7 7.3 12.5 15.2 Nov-47 1951-55 4.4 Govt -3.3 7.7 10.0 13.3 Jul-52 2001-05 2.7 Govt -2.8 5.5 4.0 6.8 May-04 2017-19 2.4 Govt -11.5 13.9 10.0 21.5 Apr-19 1990-92 Major 1.7 Govt -7.5 9.2 3.0 10.5 Jun-91 2015-17 Nil Govt -2.3 Opp win avg 8.2 21.3 Govt win avg 11.3 17.4 All avg 10.1 18.9 1987-92 Full parl. 8.8 Govt -7.5 16.3 The Tory 1970 election win saw a margin of under 2.5% on a GB basis. The figure used hereis clearly based on the UK result - which some might argue is reasonable given that at the time 8 Ulster Unionists did take the Tory Whip. Without their support Heath would only have enjoyed a majority of 15 at the outset of that Parliament - and would have been whittled away to low single figures following subsequent by election losses. |
|
|
|
Post by johntel on Oct 1, 2022 12:12:10 GMT
Just been looking at the leantossup projection for Mole Valley. I have to say I think it's garbage, at least for my constituency of Mole Valley. They show the Lib Dem vote actually going down from 35% to 31%! That is not going to happen - I've every hope that the Lib Dems will take the seat.
I think a more interesting one to watch will be Epsom and Ewell. In that area you are getting the factor of people moving out to the suburbs bringing their politics with them, also it voted remain (slightly) and at the last election the Tory vote share dropped by 6%. There are a lot of families with mortgages. The non-Tory vote has been evenly split over the past few elections, and either could emerge as a serious contender given current political trends. I suspect Labour will emerge as the main challenger, but there wont be sufficient tactical voting for them to get close to the Tories and remove Failing Grayling.
@lulu Yes Epsom is going to be very interesting, and I agree Con are still favourites because Con defectors will split equally across Lab and Lib Dem. The Mole Vally 2022 District Council result (for 1/3 of the available seats) was Lib Dem 45% Con 32%. I'm sure potential Lab and Greens will vote tactically too. I continue to be hopeful! |
|
pjw1961
Member
Government, even in its best state, is but a necessary evil; in its worst state, an intolerable one.
Posts: 8,572
|
Post by pjw1961 on Oct 1, 2022 12:13:07 GMT
Simon Clarke, the levelling up minister and a key Liz Truss ally, has told the Times that the market chaos that followed the government’s tax cutting mini-budget would pass and warned that Britain should prepare for a new age of austerity. He also said the prime minister was “enjoying having the chance” to enact policies that “she believes is right”. Despite the turmoil in financial markets, Clarke said that Truss was “astonishingly resilient” and urged the government to channel the spirit of Margaret Thatcher to push ahead with their vision. Clarke said If I was to describe one word for Liz at the moment, it is purposeful. She knew – and this was certainly something we discussed during the summer – that this would not be a comfortable process. " --- The Public school and Oxford educated and future ex mp for Middlesbrough South thinks a two word description of Truss is " astonishingly resilient " Perhaps contributors might like to consider their own two word description of our new dear leader. I'll start off with " Certifiably Insane " Given the intent to impoverish millions in order to enrich the top 5%, "Malevolently Evil" springs to mind. |
|
|
|
Post by Mark on Oct 1, 2022 12:15:37 GMT
One big difference this time compared to the mid 90s is that now people are very angry and probably, like myself, quite anxious about what this rogue govt are doing. In the 90s there was the sleaze but mainly people were bored with the Tories and Major's anaemic govt. There were no major domestic crises after black Wed (other than Major almost being removed in 95) and economically we were ok. This time feels very very different. What difference that makes to the final outcome I've no idea. I do not agree with this analysis. Back then there was a ton of anger at the tories. You could almost feel it in the air. They had pissed off virtually every group of voters (the youth with the "Criminal Justice Act", their parents with Black Wednesday, upright curtain twitchers with back to basics/sleaze after it came out that a ton of them were sleeping with people they shouldn't be etc. etc., there were large anti-government protests, in popular culture there were a ton of previously apolitical bands putting out anti-tory songs (even the Family Cat, who had previously sung about hazy drunken memories and dew soaked ground released "Bring Me The Head Of Michael Portillo"). When reference of just how useless the government were went beyond stand up comedians and Have I Got News For You and got references on "Goodnight Sweetheart" (for those not familiar, a romantic sitcom with a sci-fi (time travel) element that is well worth a watch) then you knew the government was toast. I think we are just starting to see the same level of anger now, but, only just. Two weeks ago, I wouldn't have said that. I thought partygate would have had a similar effect, but, despite small polling leads for Labour, it didn't quite happen...but it seems that the reverse-Robin-Hood-on-steroids budget at the worst possible time they could have issued it has done it for them. |
|
pjw1961
Member
Government, even in its best state, is but a necessary evil; in its worst state, an intolerable one.
Posts: 8,572
|
Post by pjw1961 on Oct 1, 2022 12:16:25 GMT
The Tory 1970 election win saw a margin of under 2.5% on a GB basis. The figure used hereis clearly based on the UK result - which some might argue is reasonable given that at the time 8 Ulster Unionists did take the Tory Whip. Without their support Heath would only have enjoyed a majority of 15 at the outset of that Parliament - and would have been whittled away to low single figures following subsequent by election losses. Yes, for clarity all my figures are UK throughout. And as previously noted I am not concerned about majorities, just who forms the government. |
|
|
|
Post by jimjam on Oct 1, 2022 12:18:38 GMT
PJW, Excellent work.
I opined fairly on in this parliament that it had the feel of 87-92 about it as I did not think Johnson would stay the course as he would be found out.
I got this bit right but what I seemed to misjudge was that the Tories would replace him with someone who could do a Major.
He was able to be enough like Thatcher to keep most of those votes onside and also seem different enough to capture other votes.
Although time to be proved wrong, I do not think Truss can pull this off and tbf she inherits a worse Tory party than Thatcher bequeathed Major.
The other part of my 87/92 similarity notion is Labour and that Starmer like Kinnock needed to drag the party back to credibility and electability.
Whilst I always thought Starmer himself would be seen as more PM material than Kinnock I believed enough swing voters would still not trust Labour in time for a 2024 GE.
Polls show that the Loto approval numbers improve as the PMs decline as some people think they can't say both doing well or poorly while the best PM numbers have by design a direct correlation.
In this regard Starmer has been luckier than Kinnock in coming up against 2 PMs who have (atm for Truss at least) less appeal than Major.
(Personally I think he is better anyhow but that is moot in some sense to my point).
The TLDR summary is that in choosing Truss the Tories may well have thrown away their chance of a replicating the 92 outcome in 2024.
|
|
graham
Member
Posts: 3,762
Member is Online
|
Post by graham on Oct 1, 2022 12:21:19 GMT
The question 'Who forms the government?' was effectively answered in both 2010 and 2017 by the decisions taken by other parties. In neither case was a Tory government inevitable.
|
|
neilj
Member
Posts: 6,380
|
Post by neilj on Oct 1, 2022 12:27:31 GMT
Perhaps not the wisest move to describe Birmingham, the host city for this year’s Tory party conference, as a “dump”. But that is what Daniel Grainger, the chair of the Young Conservative Network, did on Twitter before his post was swiftly deleted after a rebuke from the mayor of the West Midlands, Andy Street. In an follow up Twitter post, Grainger said: My tweet in relation to Birmingham was not about the city or its people. I’ve always enjoyed my visits to your city, but this morning I was greeted by an individual who threatened me with a mugging" Be fair Daniel your beloved party wants to mug us all! He's got form for attacks on Birmingham, so I question whether his claim of an attempted mugging is true or just an excuse for his comment |
|
|
|
Post by mercian on Oct 1, 2022 12:28:30 GMT
caroline - Fatcat Friday - winner, I think. ****** However, she hasn't reduced bills, only stopped further rises, and bills are going up from today anyway. As usual I'm an exception. My energy bills are going down by £20/month. Still quite a lot more than a year ago, but that supplier went bust. |
|
steve
Member
Posts: 12,635
|
Post by steve on Oct 1, 2022 12:33:17 GMT
graham In respect of the 2010 election there were insufficient non Tory and dup mps to form a majority, I wish that hadn't been so but we don't get to have our own facts.That doesn't excuse the coalition. In 2017 the electoral mathematics were even more clear cut. Potentially the period between 2017-19 with dozens of Tory mps no longer taking the whip could have seen a national government,but it didn't happen. What alternatives had you in mind.
|
|
hireton
Member
Posts: 2,804
Member is Online
|
Post by hireton on Oct 1, 2022 12:34:49 GMT
No10 angry that nobody warned them about the probable market reaction to the fiscal event. Yes, really.
|
|
steve
Member
Posts: 12,635
|
Post by steve on Oct 1, 2022 12:35:15 GMT
neilj I assumed the claim was bollocks , but you would have thought he might have come up with something more plausible.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Oct 1, 2022 12:39:53 GMT
Great work! I think size of leads is indeed a good indicator for future change of government, because as we saw in periods such as 2010-15 Labour were ahead by a little bit almost all the way through, yet lost, suggesting methodological issues with the polls. Huge leads from multiple pollsters are less likely to be out of tune with reality!
|
|
neilj
Member
Posts: 6,380
|
Post by neilj on Oct 1, 2022 12:40:47 GMT
neilj I assumed the claim was bollocks , but you would have thought he might have come up with something more plausible. Perhaps he was also mugged on the three other occasions he made disparaging comments about Birmingham... 😉 |
|
|
|
Post by mercian on Oct 1, 2022 12:43:37 GMT
I'm not sure how well matched it is, but government realy needs to prevent a house price collapse. Why? If you've only got one house, which is most people, it's only a notional value anyway. If you have to sell to move, the property you buy will be cheaper too. Ok, some people may have negative equity, but they won't be paying any more than they would anyway if they have a mortgage. And if property becomes cheaper won't that solve all the moans that young people can't afford to buy? Even if my house suddenly became totally worthless it'd just mean that there'd be a bit less to leave to descendants. |
|
).
