|
|
Post by steamdrivenandy on Feb 7, 2022 16:21:57 GMT
@isa Much of the Beeching cuts were a shocking and shortsighted destruction of infrastructure. There are several lines that if still in existence would be heavily used now (Witney to Oxford springs to mind, the road is a horror show). Many of them could have been mothballed rather than ripped out as often happened in other countries (I remember a teenage holiday in France walking disused and overgrown but still intact lines). Here it almost seems as though there were a deliberate attempt to destroy and build on old lines precisely to stop them being re-used. I've heard it said that the lobbying of the oil/motoring industry may have had a say in this at the time but I've no idea if there's any truth in that. Indeed. Certainly many lines closed by Beeching seemed to be erased from the landscape with indecent haste, and would be useful transport assets if still in existence. Thankfully, fragments remain to be enjoyed in the shape of heritage railways, although most tend to be detached from the remaining BR network. A few aren't, though, such as the Kingswear (Dartmouth) branch in Devon, which it is still possible to access direct via mainline steam charters. Makes for a very enjoyable day out. Quite a number of heritage lines have main line connections. Another in Devon is the Dart Valley Railway which connects at Totnes. There's the North Yorkshire Moors Railway that often runs through from Grosmont to Whitby on Network Rail lines. Severn Valley connects at Kidderminster, Mid Hants Railway at Alton, West Somerset at Norton Fitzwarren. There's probably more that I can't recollect offhand. I can recommend a great public transport day out. A train to Bangor, bus to Caernarvon, Welsh Highland Railway to Porthmadog, Ffestiniog Railway up to Blaenau where the station is shared with the main line down to Llandudno Junction and back on the main line towards Chester and Crewe etc. |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Feb 7, 2022 16:42:56 GMT
“ I can recommend a great public transport day out. A train to Bangor, bus to Caernarvon, Welsh Highland Railway to Porthmadog, Ffestiniog Railway up to Blaenau where the station is shared with the main line down to Llandudno Junction and back on the main line towards Chester and Crewe etc. ”
Luvly, luvly, luvly.
|
|
domjg
Member
Posts: 5,136
|
Post by domjg on Feb 7, 2022 16:47:17 GMT
My learned friend makes a telling point. I actually thought the loss due to the Beeching cuts was even higher than that, more like 7-8,000 miles. you could well be corrrect as there was a second Beeching Report which proposed further cuts in 1965 @isa I think it's crazy that huge amounts of money are being spent today on resurrecting old routes like the Oxford to Bedford/Cambridge line, Carmarthen to Aberystwyth and the recent part re-opening of the Waverley route from Edinburgh to Carlisle not to mention the building of HS2 which closely shadows the old Great Central line that was build to a high fast specification with the intention of connecting to the continent in the 1890s and was in existence for less than 70 years before being ripped up. |
|
|
|
Post by lululemonmustdobetter on Feb 7, 2022 16:48:12 GMT
OK so we are agreed that there is no agreed authority and it is your preference to use the term "British Isles" citing as your reason a rather partial and incomplete understanding of the way in which the names of the islands of Britain and Ireland has developed and changed over the centuries (and it seems ignoring the views of the majority of the inhabitants of one of the two main islands which constitute the group). , I fear we have not agreed on anything. I know you would prefer that the word/term Britain, British etc should be completely extinguished as that is your clear political prejudice (which you are entitled to) and objective.
"British Isles" is a recognised, and has been a longstanding geographical term/description of the islands we call home. As I continually state, and you demonstrate, opposition to its use is politically driven.
It’s like the preposterous claims that the UK has only existed since 1921 - pure sophistry with a clear intent.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Feb 7, 2022 16:48:38 GMT
Indeed. Certainly many lines closed by Beeching seemed to be erased from the landscape with indecent haste, and would be useful transport assets if still in existence. Thankfully, fragments remain to be enjoyed in the shape of heritage railways, although most tend to be detached from the remaining BR network. A few aren't, though, such as the Kingswear (Dartmouth) branch in Devon, which it is still possible to access direct via mainline steam charters. Makes for a very enjoyable day out. Quite a number of heritage lines have main line connections. Another in Devon is the Dart Valley Railway which connects at Totnes. There's the North Yorkshire Moors Railway that often runs through from Grosmont to Whitby on Network Rail lines. Severn Valley connects at Kidderminster, Mid Hants Railway at Alton, West Somerset at Norton Fitzwarren. There's probably more that I can't recollect offhand. I can recommend a great public transport day out. A train to Bangor, bus to Caernarvon, Welsh Highland Railway to Porthmadog, Ffestiniog Railway up to Blaenau where the station is shared with the main line down to Llandudno Junction and back on the main line towards Chester and Crewe etc. I might have guessed I'd be on a hiding to nothing on this one! You are, of course, correct. The point I was trying to make was that you don't even have to change trains to get on the Kingswear line on certain steam charters. They just hand over the token for the single line at Paignton and away you go down the branch. This may well also happen on other heritage lines, presumably the NYMR that you mentioned, but this is the only one I've actually experienced. Didn't Glenn Miller have a hit with Llandudno Junction? |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Feb 7, 2022 16:49:26 GMT
You might want to check the full quotation rather than the truncated twitter trial version. She was , as you will know, talking about the Online Safety Bill ( but who cares about that ?) What she said was :- “We’ve had 10 years of the internet kind of having its own way now. We’ve seen some of the harms happening particularly to young people and adults within our society and it’s time now for us to do something about that. That’s why we’re bringing this bill forward.” Oh, ok, I stand corrected, it does put a different slant on things there, although, I would suggest that the effect is not dis-similar. Thanks. Why is "the effect not dis-similar.". ? Supposing she meant-my party has been faffing about with the problem of online harm for ten years and its time to get on with it now .? And for those whose political imperative requires them to believe that she only encountered the Internet at the age of 55,( in 2012) one might wonder how they think she managed to be an MP without it from the age of 48 ( in 2005) ? |
|
|
|
Post by robert on Feb 7, 2022 16:51:01 GMT
One line that was on the Beeching closure list but which escaped the axe is the mid Wales line from Craven Arms in Shropshire to Newport. It meanders through mid Wales and is a most scenic route, much used by walkers and cyclists, who can hop on and off at the many stations along the route. The reason it was never closed was apparently due to the fact that it passed through a number of marginal constituencies and no one was brave enough to wield the axe.
|
|
|
|
Post by hireton on Feb 7, 2022 16:52:23 GMT
Jesus you SNP ideologues are relentless - (and highly selective) the key bit is Common Brittonic term *Pritanī in terms of your point about language imperialism. A I usually fall for the baiting. Now it's happening to someone else I don't feel quite so stupid. On UKPR1 we once went through what seemed to be an interminable debate about what to call the country in the southern bit of the island of Ireland. I didn't want to call it Ireland because it's the same name as the island, and hence confusing. They wouldn't even accept Eire, which that country puts on its stamps! As I recall, you tended to call the Republic of Ireland "southern Ireland". This is both inaccurate ( the most northerly part of the island of Ireland is in the Republic) and could be thought a deliberate ploy to diminish a sovereign state by calling it by an inaccurate geographical term. The Republic of Ireland Act 1948 says that the state should be described as the Republic of Ireland ( and that is the term the UK Government started to use from 1949 rather than Eire although since the Belfast Agreement is has started to use Ireland as well). My understanding that Eire is acceptable and is used in the Constitution of Ireland but from your point of view is unacceptable as it simply means Ireland. |
|
|
|
Post by alec on Feb 7, 2022 16:52:30 GMT
Where Johnson wins big time - and we see that on here, among some posters - is that he creates an impression of dynamism and 'can-do' attitude that is quite alluring and that many fall for. That's really why he is so good at inspiring a certain type of voter and why he is a very hard opponent to land serious blows on.
The reality is that in practical, delivery terms, he really is useless. The record speaks for itself, with a string of policy disasters and grossly failing projects, most of which were doomed from the start because they weren't thought through. There isn't a single policy area, in London or No 10, where Johnson has ever delivered a coherent and successful outcome.
Everything is always the promise for tomorrow, with excuses thrown in for yesterday, and a bit like the conman who has his mark on the hook, the saps are in so deep that accepting they've been fooled is too emotionally painful, so they go along with the outlandish excuses and buy into the next level of the con, however barmy it is in reality.
There was a point where Johnson might have translated his energetic personality into a vibrant government of delivery (back here to the 'Boris the Chairman, Sunak the CEO, Gove the Irritating Shit' meme) but to do that, he had to employ competent ministers and be open to having them tell him when his ideas were barking mad. But he didn't do that.
Instead, he demanded sycophantic loyalty, possibly through fear of being outshone, and as a result we have a terrible clump of political dunces running the big departments, and worse lower down the rungs. Like Stalin, he purged the talent through fear, and in doing so eliminated the very people who might have made him great. Lets not pretend that the old No 10 operation was anything less than complete chaos, nor that the new one will be any better. Johnson is the problem here.
But there will be those who go to their political graves still believing in the con, and refusing to examine the record. Like Trumpism across the pond, these ties can be incredibly hard to break, but Starmer is, I think, doing his best by patiently flagging up the absurdities that a Johnson premiership inevitably entails, while at the same time seeking to expunge what many voters see as the embarrassment of the Corbyn years. Labour needs those few who are prepared to admit they were fooled feel that it is safe to return to Labour, but probably more importantly in terms of vote numbers, remove from those who doubt but won't switch the visceral fear of a Labour government.
Many elections are won by party supporters staying at home rather than by switchers, and given Johsnon's abilities, plugging away at his obvious failings while presenting as a safe alternative is probably not too bad a pitch.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Feb 7, 2022 17:00:47 GMT
|
|
|
|
Post by hireton on Feb 7, 2022 17:03:11 GMT
Dearest hireton , I fear we have not agreed on anything. I know you would prefer that the word/term Britain, British etc should be completely extinguished as that is your clear political prejudice (which you are entitled to) and objective.
"British Isles" is a recognised, and has been a longstanding geographical term/description of the islands we call home. As I continually state, and you demonstrate, opposition to its use is politically driven.
It’s like the preposterous claims that the UK has only existed since 1921 - pure sophistry with a clear intent.
I have absolutely no wish to see Britain, British etc extinguished. I do wish to see the views of the people of Ireland shown some respect although I recognise that British nationalists of all political persuasions find that difficult at times as is shown by their extreme sensitivity to issues such as this. As far as I know I have never seen anybody on these boards say that the UK has only existed since 1921. It has, of course, only existed in its present from since then although British nationalists often seem to want to erase erase memory of the departure of a major part of the previous UK state as indeed some like to talk about a "thousand years of history" etc. "The Isles" by Professor Norman Davies is a good antidote to rampant anglo-centric British nationalism especially the introduction were his analysis of the historiography of "British" history studies is illuminating. You should try it. |
|
|
|
Post by crossbat11 on Feb 7, 2022 17:03:48 GMT
That's a cracker Trev. Cheers, mate. |
|
|
|
Post by steamdrivenandy on Feb 7, 2022 17:11:20 GMT
Quite a number of heritage lines have main line connections. Another in Devon is the Dart Valley Railway which connects at Totnes. There's the North Yorkshire Moors Railway that often runs through from Grosmont to Whitby on Network Rail lines. Severn Valley connects at Kidderminster, Mid Hants Railway at Alton, West Somerset at Norton Fitzwarren. There's probably more that I can't recollect offhand. I can recommend a great public transport day out. A train to Bangor, bus to Caernarvon, Welsh Highland Railway to Porthmadog, Ffestiniog Railway up to Blaenau where the station is shared with the main line down to Llandudno Junction and back on the main line towards Chester and Crewe etc. I might have guessed I'd be on a hiding to nothing on this one! You are, of course, correct. The point I was trying to make was that you don't even have to change trains to get on the Kingswear line on certain steam charters. They just hand over the token for the single line at Paignton and away you go down the branch. This may well also happen on other heritage lines, presumably the NYMR that you mentioned, but this is the only one I've actually experienced. Didn't Glenn Miller have a hit with Llandudno Junction? And Mercian Patrol |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Feb 7, 2022 17:11:44 GMT
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Feb 7, 2022 17:13:21 GMT
Nuggets from R&W: Most important issues: 1st (+1): economy (55%, up 6%), 2nd (-1) healthcare (52%, down 9%) Government’s net competency rating is -32% (+3) Boris: -26 (+1) Rishi: +8 (-3) new low Starmer: -1 (uc) Better PM: Starmer 40 (-3) v Boris 33 (+2) Rishi 40 (-5) v Boris 29 (+2) and for CON only that it is Boris 49 (+5) v Rishi 24 (-7)  Starmer 40 (+1) v Rishi 38 (uc) Boris regains lead in a few areas: - ‘can tackle the coronavirus pandemic’ (36% to 32%) - ‘can lead the UK out of the coronavirus pandemic’ (37% to 33%) - ‘can build a strong economy’ (36% to 35%) 2c: Too early to be sure, one poll, etc but whilst Boris might be 'bouncing' then it looks like a 'dead cat' for CON. Rishi maybe didn't drop as much as I thought he might given the lack of ££ to 'help' on Energy bills but the CON x-breaks suggest the 'window of opportunity' to 'Get Boris Gone' might be closing (although the Met report might still be the event that tips VoNC letters to over 54 then I doubt Boris would lose an internal leadership challenge even if Met report is very damaging) |
|
|
|
Post by lululemonmustdobetter on Feb 7, 2022 17:21:33 GMT
"The Isles" by Professor Norman Davies is a good antidote to rampant anglo-centric British nationalism especially the introduction were his analysis of the historiography of "British" history studies is illuminating. You should try it.
I know Norman he was one of my lecturers. If you ever do meet him I would advise never to get into a discussion about Polish nationalism. (He like you has his own rampant prejudices).😘
|
|
steve
Member
Posts: 12,683
|
Post by steve on Feb 7, 2022 17:21:37 GMT
@tw
So why didn't you write it
Johnson
Sunak
Kier?
Asking for a friend.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Feb 7, 2022 17:24:29 GMT
|
|
|
|
Post by crossbat11 on Feb 7, 2022 17:28:13 GMT
Trev, you're on fire tonight! |
|
pjw1961
Member
Government, even in its best state, is but a necessary evil; in its worst state, an intolerable one.
Posts: 8,590
|
Post by pjw1961 on Feb 7, 2022 17:29:30 GMT
With some of the largest corporations having revenue larger than the GDP of some nations, what is to stop Microsoft or Meta or Weibo deciding to buy plots of land, and then declaring them to be "Part of the federation of Meta-land"? All the "Ah, but that can't happen" is, I would contest, bunkum. Since it is magically ok for a country, why is it not ok for a corporation? (Kim Stanley Robinson in his Mars trilogy touched upon the role of the transnational corporations, who actually ran things, leaving outmoded concepts such as countries to be mostly ceremonial) Things of that sort have happened in the past. The East India Company ran the British possessions in India until the events of 1857 (Indian Mutiny/Indian Rebellion) led the British Government to take over direct rule. Companies already own huge swathes of land, so it is not inconceivable. |
|
|
|
Post by lululemonmustdobetter on Feb 7, 2022 17:31:42 GMT
@tw Labour voters are starting to think they can win the next electionWas it ever in doubt 
What is a bit concerning from a Labour perspective is that Tories/Johnson seem to be holding their own/slight lead on the economy which is back to being issue no1. So one cannot just assume that the cost of living / economy issue will deliver Labour victory. |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Feb 7, 2022 17:35:56 GMT
@tw Labour voters are starting to think they can win the next election Was it ever in doubt;)
Yes. LAB voters only started to think they will win next GE since 'Partygate' which you'd have seen for yourself if you opened the link. If you prefer a picture from the twitterverse I'll save you the need to read the link I posted: /photo/1 |
|
|
|
Post by ladyvalerie on Feb 7, 2022 17:38:41 GMT
|
|
|
|
Post by moby on Feb 7, 2022 17:39:21 GMT
One line that was on the Beeching closure list but which escaped the axe is the mid Wales line from Craven Arms in Shropshire to Newport. It meanders through mid Wales and is a most scenic route, much used by walkers and cyclists, who can hop on and off at the many stations along the route. The reason it was never closed was apparently due to the fact that it passed through a number of marginal constituencies and no one was brave enough to wield the axe. The Heart of Wales line. It runs from Shrewsbury to Swansea via Llanelli and the Sugar Loaf Mountain stop is about 3 miles from me. www.heart-of-wales.co.uk/ |
|
|
|
Post by pete on Feb 7, 2022 17:44:50 GMT
Domjg Agree with those comments. Suspect a number of those on the "moderate right" have roughly similar views but with more emphasis on business etc. However, what I don't understand is what motivates the far right, Trumpists, Q anon etc. The rise of these groups is a worrying trend which is currently crossing the Atlantic. How to combat it if you don't understand the motivation? I don't know, but it seems to be a resentment at being left behind and ignored or taken for granted by politicians. The solution would presumably to stop taking them for granted, and to boost the economy in left behind areas. I could coin a term for it - how about 'levelling-up'? Is that the same as that Northern powerhouse thingy the Tories kept going on about? Wonder what happened to it and what will they call the next one? |
|
|
|
Post by steamdrivenandy on Feb 7, 2022 17:47:56 GMT
I might have guessed I'd be on a hiding to nothing on this one! You are, of course, correct. The point I was trying to make was that you don't even have to change trains to get on the Kingswear line on certain steam charters. They just hand over the token for the single line at Paignton and away you go down the branch. This may well also happen on other heritage lines, presumably the NYMR that you mentioned, but this is the only one I've actually experienced. Didn't Glenn Miller have a hit with Llandudno Junction? And Mercian Patrol If you've been on a through charter train to Kingswear that might well have been a Bristol Temple Meads to Kingswear 'Torbay Express', which, until she was withdrawn for overhaul in 2012, was one of the main duties of 'my' engine GWR express passenger King Class 6024 'King Edward 1'. I refer to her as my engine because I helped in the original restoration as a member of the volunteer working party at Quainton, Bucks in 1987 to '89. It's 6024 that you see in the title sequences of the 'Coast' TV series as she runs along the by the seashore in Devon with a 'Torbay Express' and 6024 had the honour of pulling the royal train when Prince Charles visited the Severn Valley Railway. She's now in the final stages of rebuilding at the shed at Minehead Station on the West Somerset and should run again this year, covid permitting. During the overhaul she's had the latest track safety systems fitted, plus brand new outside cylinders that reduce her girth slightly so she has adequate lineside clearance on many more mainline routes, which means that in future she can operate over much more of the network. www.6024.com/ |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Feb 7, 2022 17:51:46 GMT
I might have guessed I'd be on a hiding to nothing on this one! You are, of course, correct. The point I was trying to make was that you don't even have to change trains to get on the Kingswear line on certain steam charters. They just hand over the token for the single line at Paignton and away you go down the branch. This may well also happen on other heritage lines, presumably the NYMR that you mentioned, but this is the only one I've actually experienced. Didn't Glenn Miller have a hit with Llandudno Junction? And Mercian Patrol Now that's class! |
|
|
|
Post by alec on Feb 7, 2022 17:54:50 GMT
EmCat - "With some of the largest corporations having revenue larger than the GDP of some nations, what is to stop Microsoft or Meta or Weibo deciding to buy plots of land, and then declaring them to be "Part of the federation of Meta-land"?" It's already happened, except that they don't buy land - they buy governments. Why do you think those Russians bankroll ours?
|
|
|
|
Post by alec on Feb 7, 2022 17:56:15 GMT
EmCat - also, check out Economic Development and Employment Zones (ZEDEs) in Honduras. Like I say - it's already happening.
|
|
|
|
Post by ladyvalerie on Feb 7, 2022 18:00:05 GMT
Good to hear Nadine is concerned about bad behaviour on the internet
|
|
