|
|
Post by alec on Feb 7, 2022 11:55:27 GMT
Johnson's new Chief of Staff compares his leadership to that of Thatcher.
If I were a Conservative, I would find that deeply offensive.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Feb 7, 2022 11:57:54 GMT
No need to buy Lord Ashcroft's book: 'First Lady' (hence the 'teenage twitter' new name of FLOTUK) IMO as you can get the gist of it from his twitter feed and the serialisation in the 'Wail on Sunday' (folks should be able to 'click thru' for free from the twitter link)
In the age of equality then IMO Carrie is 'fair game', especially given 'Partygate' and her appearances at what are claimed to be 'work meetings', although I appreciate some of the comments on her might overstep the mark. Not sure why Saj felt the need to comment beyond perhaps desire to keep a foot in both camps as #10 and #11 seem to slipping into the 'bad days' of the TB-GB period and it's by no means certain we'll 'Get Boris Gone'.
PS Ahead of R&W tonight then I expect Rishi's personal ratings will have taken a hit due to the very limited 'help' he's offered WRT to 'Cost of Living crisis'. Perhaps Saj fancies his own chances (as 'Littlefinger'?) in Westminster's 'Game of Thrones' where you win or you die (politically speaking).
|
|
|
|
Post by mercian on Feb 7, 2022 12:00:28 GMT
Changing the subject completely, it's been a fabulous weekend watching the birds in and around our bird feeders. On the ground we've had a pheasant, blackbirds, chaffinches and sparrows (various), plus a pair of robins. On the hanging feeders a whole herd of goldfinches (7 the highest count), a nuthatch, several greenfinch, a brambling, starlings, loads of blue tits, coal tits and a lesser redpoll. That reminds me of my gran. On a long drive with extended family a row threatened to kick off. She said "Look at the horses in the field". It's become a family saying now whenever things threaten to get fraught.  |
|
|
|
Post by caroline on Feb 7, 2022 12:00:45 GMT
tw said "I've done more than kiss socialists in my time and one could possibly argue that RoCs love screwing socialists, but just don't feel the need to wear a t-shirt starting that?  " One could possibly argue that RoCs love screwing everything and they are so successful at it that they indeed don't need a t-shirt stating that ( smiley face thing) |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Feb 7, 2022 12:06:21 GMT
Isa, I think that of the last 19 polls 17 have the Tories between 31 and 34% with one each for 30 and 35; and the average is close to 32.5%. So 32/33% is a reasonable estimate with close to 33% perhaps atm as more 31% are earlier in the batch. The same 19 polls for Labour range from 38-44% but only one at 44% and an average just below 41%. This 7% lead, therefore, seems entirely consistent with the general position within a modest moe. House effects, prompting and adjustments, and some being UK (as most are GB) etc make a crude average very general but good enough for us for now. No doubt R&W will produce a 12% or 3% lead to undermine mine suggestion! I am very keen to see how the direct Tory 2019 to Lab movement develops or holds in the coming weeks. I bow to your far more detailed analysis rather than my musings. I was just a little surprised at the headline figures given the general 'mood music' last week. |
|
domjg
Member
Posts: 5,136
|
Post by domjg on Feb 7, 2022 12:07:09 GMT
I studied history A-level in 1972. It was a one-year course so we didn’t do the whole syllabus. We started with the Congress of Vienna in 1815 and stopped before the First World War as it was only a one year course. The ideas and themes have stood me in good stead in understanding politics today. In particular, the Poor Law Amendment Act 1834 and how the idea of deserving versus undeserving poor has always been with us. Only the other day, Robert made a comment about people on benefits having the audacity to buy a cup of takeaway coffee. Moving on, my father was born in Dublin in 1911, came over to England aged 16, and joined the British army where he served with some distinction until he retired in 1964. I was born in Gibraltar where he was serving at the time. On my mother’s side, my great-grandfather came here from Italy in the 19th century. He was a musician who used to play in park bandstands along the South Coast. I live in England and speak English but I don’t consider myself to be English. If asked, I say I am British. When I hitchhiked around Europe in the early 70s we used to have a Union Jack on rucksacks which seemed to help us to get lifts. Nowadays I would be embarrassed to do so and would expect pitying looks from our European neighbours. I'm also someone born and living in England (with some Irish heritage) and I've always considered myself British and European, never English. The very notion of England sticks in my throat and conjures up negative associations for me. My young child in so far as she's aware of any identity is aware of being European and an Irish citizen. However I'm currently trying to train myself in the idea of being English, to reclaim Englishness for progressives and Europeans and not just leave it to insular flag wavers to define. Obviously I am objectively English in the way that someone born and brought up in Edinburgh is objectively Scottish and anyone from any other country and Scotland esp will refer to me as such whether I like it or not. I think we need to do this because 'Britain' as a polity will shortly be breathing it's last I believe and referring to ourselves as British once Scotland, NI and maybe even Wales have gone off on their own journey would be a bit strange and seeming to not accept the new reality. We need to give being 'English' the same non exclusive connotations being 'British' had/has. They seem to manage that without a problem in Scotland. |
|
|
|
Post by jimjam on Feb 7, 2022 12:14:08 GMT
Isa,
Your comment that after the end to the week the next poll conducted could have been worse is still valid.
It just prompted my musings.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Feb 7, 2022 12:19:18 GMT
Durham constabulary (who also cleared Dom's lockdown breaching jaunt to Barnard Castle): news.sky.com/story/sir-keir-starmer-in-the-clear-over-claim-he-broke-lockdown-with-office-beer-12535207Pendants might note that Durham is not a million miles away from Westminster and English rules app-lied to both, but it fair to say Boris likely has more friends to have a beer with than Starmer. Do we know what brand of beer Starmer was drinking? If was British beer for British parties then I'd be inclined to let him off but if it was foreign beer[1] then he's as guilty as Boris and 'off with his head'  [1] If was Belgium beer then perhaps he's sending a subtle message to Rejoiners? |
|
|
|
Post by mercian on Feb 7, 2022 12:19:49 GMT
I think we need to do this because 'Britain' will shortly be breathing it's last I believe ... As 'Britain' refers to the island on which most of us live, I assume you're expecting a rapid rise in global warming so that it disappears beneath the waves?  |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Feb 7, 2022 12:23:03 GMT
As 'Britain' refers to the island on which most of us live, I assume you're expecting a rapid rise in global warming so that it disappears beneath the waves?  In Britain we might no longer 'rule the waves', more a case of 'wave the rules' if you're the leader of a major political party.  |
|
domjg
Member
Posts: 5,136
|
Post by domjg on Feb 7, 2022 12:25:10 GMT
I think we need to do this because 'Britain' will shortly be breathing it's last I believe ... As 'Britain' refers to the island on which most of us live, I assume you're expecting a rapid rise in global warming so that it disappears beneath the waves? @merician I was literally just changing to that to Britain 'as a polity'! |
|
|
|
Post by mercian on Feb 7, 2022 12:32:59 GMT
As 'Britain' refers to the island on which most of us live, I assume you're expecting a rapid rise in global warming so that it disappears beneath the waves? @merician I was literally just changing to that to Britain 'as a polity'! You've got to be quick to beat the pedants round here! Or even the 'pendants' according to TW.  And you got my name wrong too. |
|
|
|
Post by crossbat11 on Feb 7, 2022 12:39:01 GMT
isa
I tend to agree with your observation too. Considering the political events of the last week, you might have expected to see a deterioration in the Tory VI in the first poll to have conducted fieldwork since the most recent Johnson government pratfalls occurred.
We need a cluster of polls to be sure of anything very much, and they may arrive soon like a clutch of overdue buses, but the Deltapoll first taxi off the rank suggests little change. I would have expected some, to be frank, and it to be negative for the Tories.
Maybe, they've hit a floor for now and beyond Johnson being photographed throttling a kitten in front of its frail and elderly lady owner, with a smirking Dorries seen in the background physically restraining the lady's ex war hero husband from intervening to rescue the animal, nothing much is going to be revealed about Johnson now that can further dent him. He's bottomed out, albeit with his bouncebackabilty much reduced. Gone for good too, possibly.
We've certainly had a seismic shock to public opinion though, and Labour are now comfortably and consistently ahead in the polls. A transformation in the state of play from the one that prevailed for nigh on two years, and occurring very rapidly too, but maybe there's not much more partygate juice Labour can squeeze from the much diminished Tory orange.
Hence some stable polling for a bit with, as JimJam observed, an average 7% Labour lead pertaining for a while. It's possible.
There doesn't seem much on the political horizon to suggest a Tory revival though. Quite the opposite in fact when you consider the energy and tax rises ahead and the overall cost of living crisis that may soon (already is?) envelop most households. I think they'll remain becalmed in the low 30s for some time now
Glass half empty merchants may fixate on the failure of Labour to open up a bigger and widening lead, but those with a rather more hopeful and optimistic outlook on political life might be consoled at that steady 40% VI for Labour, enduring now for two months or more. It doesn't look soft at all.
|
|
|
|
Post by mandolinist on Feb 7, 2022 12:40:49 GMT
I took my history O level in 1976, social and economic history from 1750-1920. It was all south sea bubble and Arkwright. Tangentally the Great Reform Bill, but much more the various factory acts and abolition of the Trans-Atlantic slave trade. Quite a radical syllabus really, what with the corn laws, the Peterloo massecre and the suffragettes. The weakness of the syllabus was that it didn't place British history within a much broader European or world history. It really fostered the myth of British exceptionalism. Very similar to our syllabus in content although ours also threw in quite a bit about Railway mania and canals, I seem to recall. Loads about electoral matters, extension of the franchise etc., which I found strangely fascinating, a phenomenon that continues to this day for me. Our period ended somewhat randomly in 1932, just after the fall of the second MacDonald administration. Strangely, because I really enjoyed that bit of the course, I had forgotten that was where I learnt about the canal and railway history. All those private acts of parliament to enable the railways and the uproar about the line near Eton.
I had also forgotten about the enclosure acts and the stealing of the commons, which provided the capital for the industrial revolution. You were right oldnat, we didn't cover much equivalent Scots history, although New Lanarkshire got an honourable mention. |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Feb 7, 2022 12:42:13 GMT
From the Guardian .....
15 years ago it was 2 weeks
Isn't progress a wonderful thing !
|
|
oldnat
Member
Extremist - Undermining the UK state and its institutions
Posts: 6,131
|
Post by oldnat on Feb 7, 2022 12:42:37 GMT
As 'Britain' refers to the island on which most of us live, I assume you're expecting a rapid rise in global warming so that it disappears beneath the waves? @merician I was literally just changing to that to Britain 'as a polity'! The term "British" will continue to have meaning after the further dissolution of the UK, in the same way as "Scandinavian" has. It's a shame that we don't have an appropriate term which would include all the islands in this archipelago, as Ireland is geographically and culturally similar to GB and like the Nordic Council, "These Islands" have an inter-governmental forum to work on common issues. |
|
neilj
Member
Posts: 6,457
Member is Online
|
Post by neilj on Feb 7, 2022 12:46:53 GMT
Sunak is getting the blame for blocking the NHS waiting list reduction programme.
Not sure what his plan is, unless it's showing his authority over Johnson and the Government
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Feb 7, 2022 12:54:08 GMT
We want Home Rule for Barnard Castle. |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Feb 7, 2022 13:00:08 GMT
Very similar to our syllabus in content although ours also threw in quite a bit about Railway mania and canals, I seem to recall. Loads about electoral matters, extension of the franchise etc., which I found strangely fascinating, a phenomenon that continues to this day for me. Our period ended somewhat randomly in 1932, just after the fall of the second MacDonald administration. Strangely, because I really enjoyed that bit of the course, I had forgotten that was where I learnt about the canal and railway history. All those private acts of parliament to enable the railways and the uproar about the line near Eton.
I had also forgotten about the enclosure acts and the stealing of the commons, which provided the capital for the industrial revolution. You were right oldnat , we didn't cover much equivalent Scots history, although New Lanarkshire got an honourable mention. I think the railway bit resonated with me because just down the road from school, a busy mainline railway was crossed by a disused, but then largely intact, railway, and our cross-country runs used to involve traipsing through muddy bogs under railway viaducts and standing on the platform of an eerily deserted station, marvelling at the ingenuity and grace of Victorian engineering. It seemed such a waste for all that effort to have been so summarily binned. |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Feb 7, 2022 13:02:28 GMT
Comrade Corbyn also broke the rules (but at least apologised) www.theguardian.com/world/2020/oct/01/jeremy-corbyn-stanley-johnson-apologise-covid-breaches-mask-rule-sixLDEM's Davey has stated he never broke the 'rule of six' as he doesn't have that many friends SNP's Sturgeon has also never broken the rules as SNP's politburo are all 'one family' (eg her husband, Peter Murrell: CEO of SNP) PS I'm aware Boris broke the rules far more often in a far more serious manner (and don't need to wait for the Met or Gray pt2 for my 'judgement' - see polling posted t'other day). He has offered nothing more than a forced partial apology, which along with the crime of drinking foreign beer and eating cake, means he(+Carrie) should, IMO, suffer far greater for his/their crimes. |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Feb 7, 2022 13:02:58 GMT
I think we need to do this because 'Britain' as a polity will shortly be breathing it's last Couldn't disagree more. A Polity is a political entity. Britain / British isles are names for a place. A geographical location. "Britain" is derived from the earliest written name for the place where I live. It's derivation is a name for the people who lived on these islands over 2000 years ago-the Pritani-the Painted Ones. ( Welsh for Britain is "Prydain" *) So it describes the land which created our culture . A land which has seen many "polities" arise and fall over the ensuing centuries. I think of myself as British. That won't change because yet another polity on it appears or disappears. * this wiki on the welsh tradition for the peoples of Britain, is interesting :-https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lloegyr |
|
|
|
Post by steamdrivenandy on Feb 7, 2022 13:11:09 GMT
We want Home Rule for Barnard Castle. Have you got an opticians up there yet? And is that Bar-nard, Ba-nard or Barn-ard? |
|
|
|
Post by EmCat on Feb 7, 2022 13:13:00 GMT
All this discussion about the different kinds of nation / nation state / territory / country and so forth makes me wonder: Who gets to decide when a piece of land is part of a particular country? For example, there is the legal fiction that an embassy is a small enclave of its staff's country, within another country. Historically, vast tracts of land have been bought and sold to become part of other countries (like the Louisiana Purchase). With some of the largest corporations having revenue larger than the GDP of some nations, what is to stop Microsoft or Meta or Weibo deciding to buy plots of land, and then declaring them to be "Part of the federation of Meta-land"? All the "Ah, but that can't happen" is, I would contest, bunkum. Since it is magically ok for a country, why is it not ok for a corporation? (Kim Stanley Robinson in his Mars trilogy touched upon the role of the transnational corporations, who actually ran things, leaving outmoded concepts such as countries to be mostly ceremonial) Yep but if there was a murder in the federation of Meta-Land what legal entity would preside over the trial? Corporations no matter how large are still subject to the law of the state and attempts to introduce structures from within will always be legally challenged; This is one of the reasons for breaking up multi nationals of course I acknowledge some states twist their laws, (e.g tax havens) to favour huge corporations....that's why whistle blowing is important! Since large corporations already have large legal teams, then it would be Meta-Land itself. The corporation could find it cheaper to buy out the country where they set up their crypto-nation. |
|
|
|
Post by lululemonmustdobetter on Feb 7, 2022 13:15:43 GMT
|
|
patrickbrian
Member
These things seem small and undistinguishable, like far off mountains turned into clouds
Posts: 316
|
Post by patrickbrian on Feb 7, 2022 13:15:47 GMT
Sunak is getting the blame for blocking the NHS waiting list reduction programme. Not sure what his plan is, unless it's showing his authority over Johnson and the Government Or possibly Johnson's people are spinning to damage his only real rival? Time to 'trash for overtopping' maybe... I rather doubt though that Sunak uses the NHS as both Johnson and Cameron did when in need. I think he's love to privatise it. |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Feb 7, 2022 13:16:27 GMT
We want Home Rule for Barnard Castle. Have you got an opticians up there yet? And is that Bar-nard, Ba-nard or Barn-ard? Well, the bloke it was named after was actually called Bernard I think. Bernie to his chums or sometimes Burnmeister. Why it changed to Barnard will have to wait. (Until I look it up.) |
|
|
|
Post by lululemonmustdobetter on Feb 7, 2022 13:20:30 GMT
We want Home Rule for Barnard Castle. |
|
oldnat
Member
Extremist - Undermining the UK state and its institutions
Posts: 6,131
|
Post by oldnat on Feb 7, 2022 13:21:12 GMT
|
|
oldnat
Member
Extremist - Undermining the UK state and its institutions
Posts: 6,131
|
Post by oldnat on Feb 7, 2022 13:25:23 GMT
As the Irish would tell you, that term is rather inappropriate! And the use of "British" to include the Irish would be the continuation of linguistic imperialism.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Feb 7, 2022 13:28:36 GMT
YG article from a while back: yougov.co.uk/topics/politics/articles-reports/2017/01/24/what-makes-person-english-according-english2c. I'd be far more inclusive myself. Anyone living in England can consider themselves English IMO (along with considering themselves 1+ 'other' things if they want to as well). Also anyone who has 'links' to England/Britain who lives somewhere else[1] can consider themselves English/British if they want to. I also have no issue being called British or European (just don't call me Scottish) and so I think the YG question is a bit daft. Forced to pick I'd go with ' more English than British' as I'm English, British, European (and Earthling if we're covering every option) [1] Anecdote alert. Ex-pats in my experience put on a far greater show of being 'English' (or British) than those who live in England/Britain. Whether that has been time spent in Singapore, Japan, India or N.America and whether it be 'flag waving', celebrating St.George's day (or any Royal event), supporting sport team or an expensive (and unnecessary IMO) desire to consume/wear English/British products (not all of which are 'Made in Britain' anyway - but don't point that out to them!). You can take the Englishman (or women) out of England but in doing so you put more 'England' back into that person (in my experience anyway and note my sample would be far more skewed to RoCs for sure) I'll also chuck in this little nugget and note many a true word is said in jest (I certainly just tell anyone from N.America I'm from London even when that is not true as it saves time) ? |
|
"
